More on That Not So Little Mosque In Bendigo, and those who Approve, or Who Oppose
A series of articles that appeared in January in the local paper, the Bendigo Advertiser. I encourage readers to click on the links, as the Bendigo Advertiser, bless 'em, has permitted "Comments" on all of them, and the Comments are of interest. Not everyone in Bendigo or elsewhere in Victoria or in Australia is happy about the idea of yet another mosque.
First up, the initial announcement, as reported by Emma-Jane Schenk on 10 January this year.
"Gallery: Bendigo's first mosque in pipeline".
Click on the link and have a look at what this thing is supposed to look like. It's hideous. It looks like a military base - or a prison. - CM
UPDATE 2.30 PM FRIDAY
"Bendigo's Sacred Heart Cathedral Monsignor Frank Marriott has called for greater tolerance and harmony among religious groups, following the announcement of a proposed mosque in Bendigo.
'Monsignor Frank Marriott said the challenge facing Bendigo is to bring Christian, Buddhist, Islamic and other traditions together, possibly by developing an interfaith council.
"I welcome the proposal and the ability for them to worship, but I ask the Islamic community to extend the same hospitality", he said.
"There are places where we [Christians] are not free to worship and if we are giving them the freedom to worship, we are entitled to expect the same freedom".
A sensible point to make, but...my dear Monsignor Marriott, Islam doesn't do reciprocity. - CM
'he said an interfaith council would help the different faiths work through a degree of understanding.
So long as the Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Jews etc don't ask the Muslims any awkward questions about jihad, dhimma and jizya, sharia, the apostasy law, the blasphemy law, the rule that a Muslim man can take a non-Muslim wife but a Muslim woman can't marry a non-Muslim man unless he converts to Islam...etc.- CM
"This proposal demands a fairly important response", he said.
Yes. A smart response, Monsignor Marriott, would be for you to get hold of multiple copies of Mark Durie's "The Third Choice: Islam, Dhimmitude and Freedom" and Sam Solomon's "Al Hijra: The Islamic Doctrine of Immigration" and Sam Solomon's other little book, "The Mosque and Its Role in Society", and request and require every Catholic parish in and around Bendigo and the principals of every Catholic school to read, mark, learn and inwardly digest what those two books have to say. - CM
'The Great Stupa of Universal Compassions' Ian Green said the proposal would expand Bendigo's cultural interest and diversity.
Bzzzzt! Let's play buzzword bingo...But really...Mr Ian Green, obviously a western convert to Buddhism, needs to read up on history a bit, and he would soon discover that wherever Islam goes, wherever it obtains power, it ruthlessly erases cultural interest and diversity. He should be reminded of what happened to the wonderfully diverse Greek-Persian-Hindu-Buddhist-animist (with Christians and Jews thrown in) cultural fizz in Afghanistan, when Muslims arrived and imposed Islam. Bamiyan Buddhas, mate? Where are they now? Where are all the Buddhists and their cultural creations, throughout a massively-Islamised swathe of Central Asia? What happened to the Nalanda University? What is happening to Buddhists in Thailand and Indonesia and Malaysia and Bangladesh? Are their shrines and statues, and persons and property, being protected in a "diverse" society dominated by Muslims? Islam seeks the erasure of everything not-islam. - CM
"As a real regional capital city, we should be aiming to cater for a real range of diverse people, which makes the town all the more interesting", he said.
The more Islamic it becomes, the less interesting it will be. Unless, I suppose , your definition of "interesting" is todays' Somalia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Syria, Iraq...- CM
'Mr Green experienced some negativity when building the Great Stupa 33 years ago.
'But he said while there was always a vocal minority in terms of religion, the majority of Bendigo would most likely support the move.
"Of course there wil be some odd comments made from the more extreme elements, but the overwhelming community response was welcoming" he said.
Because most people have a general sort of impression that Buddhism doesn't mandate open ended warfare against all non-Buddhists.- CM
'I'm sure it'll be the same for the mosque.
The problem is that a mosque is not the same kind of thing as a Buddhist shrine, not at all, at all. - CM
"You can't think of a few people disagreeing with you - you have to think of the greater good and all the positives".
I don't see anything good, in the long run, coming out of a big mosque in Bendigo, next to the airport. - CM
'UPDATE: 2PM Loddon Campaspe Multicultural Services general manager Noemi Cummings has thrown her support behind a proposed $3 million mosque to be built in Bendigo.
"As it stands the Islamic community have been congregating for worship in rooms at La Trobe University for several years but may soon have access to a two-storey multi-use facility to pray.
'The facility, planned for Rohs Road in East Bendigo, will feature two prayer halls (one for men, one for women? - CM), education facilities (ie a madrasa - CM), a community sports hall and office.
'Funded by the Australian Islamic Mission (and where do they get a cool 3 million from, just like that? - CM) it will cater for weddings and funerals and offer prayer facilities for up to 150 families.
'Ms Cummings said Bendigo's Muslim community would appreciate having a place to worship God as they have chosen.
"As a Christian, I appreciate having a place where I meet like-minded people to worship God", she said.
But a mosque is a whole lot more than just a "place of worship", Ms Cummings.
Time to post, yet again (hoping that someone from Bendigo may stop by) five classic articles that set out, in some detail, the real meaning and function of a mosque.
First, Fitzgerald: Mosques in the West.
Second, an apostate from Islam, explaining why a mosque is not only a "place of worship":
Third, Seth Frantzman, geographer, on "More than a coincidence: Minarets, geography, and power".
Fourth, an Islamosavvy Indian citizen of the USA, one Vijay Kumar, on "The Muslim Mosque: A State Within a State".
Fifth and last - "What is a Mosque? An Interview with Sam Solomon".
Now, back to our naive Ms Cummings.
"I appreciate being respected and having the freedom to choose my religious persuasion [and] how and where to worship.
Which respect and which freedom of choice are severely limited in all Islamic states on earth. Ms Cummings: are you aware of what is being done to Christians, by Muslims, in northern Nigeria, and in Pakistan, and Syria, and Egypt, right now? Are you aware of what happened to Lina Joy and Mohammed Hegazy when, in Malaysia and in Egypt respectively, they left Islam for Christianity and sought to have their identity cards updated to reflect their change of religion? - CM
"For that reason I extend the same respect and appreciation to others".
But Muslims, my dear Ms Cummings, do not reciprocate. Not in any place where they dominate. - CM
"At the Loddon Campaspe Multicultural Services, we affirm our desire to promote respect and understanding for the integrity of each other's beliefs, cultures and traditions".
My dear Ms Cummings, you need to read the Barnabas Fund booklet, "What is Sharia?" and get a handle on the fact that Islam does not respect the integrity of any non-Muslim belief, culture, or tradition. One is supposed to convert to Islam, or submit to untermensch status as a degraded, humiliated, exploited and imperilled dhimmi, or...be killed. Further question: do you "respect" the right of a Muslim in Australia, supposing they hold by the Shafiite school of sharia, to cut out the clitoris of his or her prepubescent daughter? Do you respect the right of a Muslim, in conformity with the sharia and the clear command in the Quran, to beat his deemed-rebellious wife? To kill an apostate or a "blasphemer"? To emulate Mohammed with Aisha, and take to wed, and to bed, a nine-year-old girl? All these things are normative Islam, part and parcel of the culture, the "religion", the all-encompassing total and totalitarian "deen" or way of life of the Mohammedan Mob. - CM
'The planning application, submitted by Tomkinson Group, says the centre would "provide the Muslim community with an identity".'
"It will help define Bendigo as a welcoming multicultural city", it states...
No, it will be the first step toward Bendigo being rendered less multicultural, given Islam's stated aim of producing a global monoculture of nothing but Islam, Islam, Islam. - CM
'City of Greater Bendigo planning director Prue Mansfield said council was currently working with the applicants regarding the proposal.
"We are asking the usual questions about traffic impact and with it being close to the airport we want to make sure the height requirements are okay", she said.
"Once we've sorted that out, we will formally advertise the application".
"Ms Mansfield said if the application was approved, construction would get underway immediately.
Why such haste? Why is everyone falling over themselves to facilitate the building of mosques here, there and everywhere? - CM
"We don't have an opinion yet because we can't do the assessment until all those questions have been answered", she said.
"In terms of another service for Bendigo, though (for Bendigo? mosques by definition are for Muslims and Muslims only and indeed, usually and primarily for Muslim males - CM), it is fantastic to see the community
developing Islamising and us increasing our services for the changing Islamising community."
And so to our second article from the Bendigo Advertiser, which is very obviously a puff piece. A bunch of thoroughly-dhimmified or terminally-naive City Councillors rabbiting on about how wonderful it will be to have a great big mosque in Bendigo. Blair Thomson reporting.
'No religious issues in mosque: Councillors."
'City of Greater Bendigo councillors are not opposed to plans for a new mosque on religious or cultural grounds.
If they knew anything at all about Islam and Muslims, they would be. - CM
'But there are planning concerns around the height of the $3 million building, and council staff are seeking more information from GKA Architects and the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
"All nine councillors said they did not have any issues with the religious aspect of the proposal.
If any of them were to spend about half an hour reading the ninth Surah of the Quran, and then another half hour browsing the assorted translated khutbas on offer at MEMRI, they would have. - CM
'Councillor Rod Fyffe said he had only received positive feedback from the community.
"We are a multicultural society in Bendigo", he said. "We need to acknowledge that and celebrate it".
Mate you need to have a good long look at Bangladesh and Pakistan and Malaysia and see what is happening to the non-Muslim minorities there. Wherever there is Islam and Muslims achieve dominance, societies steadily become less multicultural, not more. - CM
"People have their faith, have their religion, and certainly have a right to practice it, and that's fair enough".
So you're okay with FGM, polygyny, child marriage and wife-beating, Cr Fyffe? Because many devout orthodox Muslims believe they have a perfect right to do these things. - CM
'Cr Peter Cox noted the development needed to work through any issues with planning regulations, amenity and traffic management.
"But I don't have a problem with any religious group applying for a planning permit to erect such a centre for themselves", he said.
"It demonstrates diversity within our community, and I think that's a very encouraging aspect of Bendigo".
If the Muslim community in Bendigo is permitted to continue to increase in numbers and in clout, diversity in Bendigo will diminish...rapidly. Guaranteed. - CM
'Cr James Williams said a mosque would be positive for Bendigo (this tells me that Cr James Wiliams knows nothing whatsoever about Islamic history and practice either past or present - CM) and said it was "great to see it happen".
"I think it's great that we celebrate other cultures", he said.
But Muslims do not celebrate other cultures: they attack and, if they can, suppress or annihilate them. What happened to the Bamiyan Buddhas? What happened to a whole bunch of Christian churches, with their icons and statues and Bibles and Crosses, in Syria, recently? They were systematically desecrated and destroyed: by a bunch of perfectly-orthodox Muslims. - CM
'The site is covered by an airport overlay and council director of planning and development Prue Mansfield said the council would seek advice from CASA over the 25 metre minaret tower.
If this thing is built, then what will the council do if, some time down the track, some Muslim mobster atop that minaret shines a laser pointer into the eyes of a jet pilot who is attempting to land? - CM
"it's a normal process as for any planning permit", she said. "We've asked the applicant for some more information about traffic, the impact on vegetation, and some questions about the minaret and its implications on the airport."
'Cr Helen Leach said she had some concerns over the minaret but said it was "a free country" in regards to faith.
It will not stay free, if we keep on importing Muslims. - CM
Item 3. Another puff piece from the Bendigo Advertiser.
"Relaxed" local residents who clearly don't know the first thing about the history and teachings of Islam. Dorothy Cook reporting.
"Residents relaxed about proposed mosque".
"Residents in East Bendigo seem unperturbed by a proposal for Bendigo's first mosque.
That's because these particular residents know nothing whatsoever about the doctrines and history of Islam. - CM
"The Bendigo Advertiser went doorknocking in Rohs Road on Saturday, and could find no-one bothered by the idea of a mosque being built on Rohs Road.
'A planning application was submitted by Tomkinson Group to the City of Greater Bendigo last week, for a multi-use Islamic centre, including two prayer halls, education facilities, a community sports hall, caretaker house, and office.
'The proposed mosque, funded by the Australian Islamic Mission (about which I have not been able to discover very much, as yet; but its title suggests that its goal is to Islamise Australia - CM), wil offer prayer facilities for 150 families who are outgrowing rooms they are using for prayer at La Trobe University.
'In its application, the Tomkinson Group said the centre would "define Bendigo as a welcoming multicultural city".
Really? Doesn't the very large Buddhist stupa in Bendigo already do that perfectly well? Why does Bendigo have to have a Muslim fort and advance operating base? - CM
'Saturday's story prompted mixed reactions, some negative, on the Advertiser's Facebook page.
"Melissa Stewart wrote "What a stupid idea. How about putting that money into something that will benefit the WHOLE community".
"Staz Wilson wrote, "Keep it in Melbourne don't being this Bendigo" (sic).
Quaere: are these typical of the "against" comments? Or have they been carefully selected in order to represent those who oppose mosques, as ignorant and illiterate? - CM
'Many were supportive, however. Geoff Brown posted - "Everyone hating on this seems to think that Bendigo money is paying for this. It's a planning application. NOT an application for funding. Think about it. Read the article before you jump on with your hatred".
Note: it seems that any and all opposition to/ concern about a mosque is stereotyped as flowing from "hatred". Why? - CM
'Bart Wrobel wrote - "Are those who object to this project also opposed to Muslims living in Bendigo? (Quite probably, yes; and quite probably because they know what life is like for non-Muslim minorities all over the lands of the Muslims - CM). What about Buddhists? Or Taoists? Hindu? Sikh? Druid? Atheists? Homosexuals? Where does your bigotry end?"
Bart Wrobel is a fool. Because it is precisely people who care about the life and limb of Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Sikhs, pagans, atheists, and gays - and who know that in the lands dominated by Islam all those groups I have just listed are treated very very badly indeed - who oppose Islamisation. - CM
'The few residents at home on Rohs Road Saturday were sanguine or had not heard about it.
That's interesting; that they would not have heard about it. - CM
'Jacinta Quin said if the mosque was approved she didn't think it was going to hurt anyone.
"it's not going to bother me", she said. "Everyone has a right to their own religion".
Those who in the vicinity of the Lakemba mosque in Sydney, or in the vicinity of the East London Mosque, have been harassed by gangs of Mohammedthugs, because of being unislamically dressed and female, might be able to tell Ms Quin a thing or two. - CM
'Karen Kalms said it was not a concern. "I wouldn't have a problem with it", she said...
If it's built, and the "parking jihad" (as Gavin Boby calls it) gets going in earnest, she might rethink. Click on the link and read the Comments and you'll see that not everybody is as ill-informed as those to whom the Bendigo Advertiser happened to speak. Some seem well aware of what has been dubbed "mosque blight". - CM
And then, finally, to everyone's surprise, some people who do know something about Islam, and are not relaxed or 'sanguine' at all. Blair Thomson again.
"Group Rallies Against Mosque Proposal".
'A new facebook page aims to stop the construction of a mosque in Bendigo.
"The Stop the Mosque in Bendigo page has attracted more than 1700 likes since being created on Saturday.
'The administrators of the group did not respond to a request for comment on Tuesday, and made a post saying they did not want to deal with the inevitable backlash.
'The page said the media was "aligned with the left and will not give a true and correct report" and the "about" section said it was not a forum for debate.
"It is for those who don't want a mosque in Bendigo, for their own reasons", it said.
"We live in a democracy, and we are exercising our right to say "no" to what happens in our country.
"Please, like, share and ask the City of Greater Bendigo to show some leadership on behalf of our great country."
'Melbourne is listed as the most popular city for users iwth the page most popular with people aged 25 to 35 years old.
That's interesting. Because in Victoria the single largest concentration fo Muslims, to date, is in Melbourne. So those people may have encountered Islam, Muslims, and the effect of mosques in the neighbourhood, first hand. - CM
'A post says the administrators had to remove pages with inappropriate language and calls for users to refrain from using hate speech.
"And before anyone for the mosque steps in and says we were bullying, we are not", another post says.
"We are entitled to our views and request that the City of Greater Bendigo stops the mosque, based on historical evidence that not one community in the world has benefited in a positive way from a mosque and Muslims setting up camp in a community".
Precisely. One might adduce, just for starters, the riots that regularly erupt from the Al Aqsa Mosque that squats on top of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem; the Muslim mobs, there, that throw rocks and howl curses at any Jew who - on that site most holy to Jews worldwide - dares to visibly pray to the Holy One of Israel. - CM
'But Bendigo mayor Barry Lyons said councillors would consider the application on planning grounds.
"They must be reminded that to put some kind of objection in, it must have some basis, some grounds for it", he said.
Have a good long look at the East London mosque, dear Mayor. And google around and find out just how many mosques are and have been used as arsenals and magazines, and as bomb factories, and on how many occasions in many different countries - to the tune of shouted exhortations from the minarets - mobs have swarmed out of the msoques to attack nearby non-Muslim homes, businesses, and places of worship. Then think again, please. - CM
"You can't object to something because you don't like something".
"That's not grounds for an objection".
"As far as council's concerned, we'll be considering it on planning criteria.
"If it passes on planning criteria, it will more than likely be supported".
Okay, Mayor. If it's built, and a year or two years or ten years down the track, a mass-murderous jihad plot is discovered to have been hatched in connection with this mosque, what will you do then? Will you be prepared to accept that those who were fearful of its construction, might have had good reasons for their fears? - CM
'Cr Lyons said anyone with an objection should lodge it with the City of Greater Bendigo, when the proposal was released for comment.
'Councillors have unanimously said they are not opposed to the mosque on religious or cultural grounds".
Which merely reveals how little they know about Islam and Muslims. And again, the Comments to this article are interesting.
Here's one, by one "GM" - "It has been shown in Shepparton and Sydney, that where Muslims are encouraged to gather together around a mosque, they claim that particular area for Islam. Where this has happened in the UK, France, Germany, and the Netherlands enclaves are formed, where Sharia law is then embraced. As a consequence of this, no-go zones for the non-Muslim public and even police have been established. Whilst I have no objections to individuals wishing to practise their Islamic beliefs, I do object to them banding together around a mosque, in order to change the community in which we live. This is not just about a building...it's about a dangerous ideology".
Exactly. - CM