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Thursday, 1 November 2007

by Theodore Dalrymple

It used to be said that one should not talk of sex, religion or politics in polite company. So much the worse for polite company, I thought in my days of adolescent enjoyment of disputes for their own sake; and certainly there are subjects that a journalist should avoid if he wishes to avoid an angry response whatever he says about them. In my experience, which admittedly is limited, those subjects are modern art, chronic fatigue syndrome and religion: but of these, religion is the greatest.  more...

Posted on 11/01/2007 8:25 AM by NER
Comments
1 Nov 2007
Hugh Fitzgerald

Those lucky enough to have been raised in a family of easygoing atheists may experience a brief shock of non-recognition when they discover, later in life, that not everyone is an atheist, that even some intelligent people believe in God. Think of Mr. Broderick, who taught you European history in your senior year and who, for god's sake, was a devout Catholic -- hard to make sense of it, isn't it? And when those easygoing but firm atheists (not the hitchins or dawkins kind) discovers that a lot of what was written, painted, composed in the past, has a religious theme, makes religious references, requires an understanding of religious symbolism, requires in fact a knowledge of the Bible stories, they cheerfully learn them. And get on with the real business of living -- whatever that may be.

But now all these dawkinses and hitchinses, in their equal-opportunity denunciations of religion,  think that with a book they will help attain what is 1) unattainable and 2) not such a hot idea to be attempting to attain in the first place, which is a world in which everyone discards religion and becomes an atheist.  Not necessarily, always and everywhere, a good thing. And right now, one wishes to shake the trees of faith selectively: more Christians and Jews, surer of themselves, more Muslims, unsurer of themselves. That's the desired result.  Atheism -- not wishy-washy agnosticism, may remain caviar for the general. Ainsi soit-il.



1 Nov 2007
Send an emailLaurie

Strangely enough, I actually agree with a lot of what Dalrymple has written here about religion.  It's a fairly standard version of what might be described as the "baby and the bathwater" defence which is fine as far as it goes...... which is up to about the present day and out to about the limits of western culture.

I suspect that to understand why these books have appeared  we have to look at the generations that are growing up now and where they intend to take our culture.   As a high school teacher I have been in constant contact with teenagers for over thirty years and the present generation are remarkably different to their predecessors in their attitude to religion. 

Until 5 or 10 years ago those students, who like Dalrymple himself,  had rejected religion at an early age would rarely put their position forward or challenge religious views.  Not so any more.  Religion is fair game and atheism is the dominant creed.  To give an example; students used to sit in pious silence in my  Biology classes as some devout fundamentalist put forward their nonsensical arguments against evolution.  Now, despite my efforts to moderate, such views are met with loud mockery and derision.  There may indeed be a tide in the affairs of men but I think a tide in the  opportunities available to publishers is what has driven the production of these books.  They have seen their market and rushed to meet it.

There are parallels here also with the cultural changes around sexuality that have occurred over the last three decades. Atheists are coming out, and like gays before them, they are loud, proud and out to change the culture!



2 Nov 2007
Send an emailalfred
As one who thinks that religious belief while not inherently evil has spawned much evil, Bach's architectonic miracles are objects of worshipful veneration and shall remain so, to the end of days--at least to the end of my days: strange alliance? So what if Bach inscribed his compositions "To the greater glory of God" and so what if god's putative existence is a pathetic delusion, as I perceive it to be. That describes me, not Bach. Nor does it diminish the man's monumental contribution to Western Civilization. Greatness achieved consequent to a life-enhancing illusion is not a fallacy. But denigration of that greatness is.

3 Nov 2007
milkshake

Freeman Dyson is example of a decent person, a practicing believer and a great matematician-physicist. For many reasons it is deeply satisfying to read his memoir, Disturbing The Universe - and I think the tone of his writings can serve as an antidote to all the recent militantly anti-religious stuff.

(It woud have been more helpfulif if the new atheists went after specific churches and doctrines because these do have sordid history - whenever I see the infallible Pope banishing contraceptives I am glad he is not as powerful as his predecessors were and as the Ayatollahs still are. ) 

I grew up in communist Czechoslovakia, under anti-religious regime, in atheist nation with strong anti-catolic sentiments. And looking back I remember that the churches, the priests, the catolic holidays and traditions were treated with respect by most -  it was not just my parents. I suppose the city people I knew then felt that something immaterial was lacking in their existence. One can be awed in a cathedral or enjoy christmas midnight mass even if one does not believe in what it represents .



3 Nov 2007
Send an emailMark McCormick

Theodore Dalrymple's statement that "a sense of a transcendent meaning or purpose to existence is a great comfort" is true as far as it goes, but does anyone else find it a bit woolly? (note - this is the first time I've noticed anything less than needle-sharpness in his writing).

A sense of transcendent - even if it preserves our culture -  is ultimately a deception if this quotidian world is all that exists. This is particularly true with Christianity. As Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15, "if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith". The significance of Christianity stands or falls on a single historical fact, the resurrection of Christ. If it did not happen Christianity is futile (comfort or no comfort), a logical consequence Paul recognises and lays clearly before his readers.

If there is no resurrection, if Christ's death on the cross was his final act, then his numerous claims to be the Son of God were simply false; and his profound moral teaching must remain an eternally discordant enigma alongside the brutish reality of his egotistical madness.

But if the resurrection did in fact take place, then it was the most important event ever. And how we respond to it will determine who we are - and what we will become - to a degree infinitely more important than the aggregate of all our other choices.

Purpose should be rooted in reality, so we shouldn't fear examing whether the resurrection took place or not. To me, the documentary evidence is compelling, but I think Bach can also give us a clue. The transcendence we feel listening to his music would merely be a teasing mockery of our animal selves without the reality of a transcendent object. The resurrection, the point in history when the Transcendent transformed humanity, solves both the enigma of Christ's character and the riddle of our numinous desires.



4 Nov 2007
Send an emailalfred
Ok, Mr. McCormick: "a teasing mockery of our animal selves" indeed (re Bach's magnificence).

Please sir, may I have some more?  My "animal self" hungers for more such "teasing mockery."

Unlike you, I demand neither magical thinking nor mystical presumption prior to respecting magnificence.

Now, which is to be evaluated the lesser I shall leave to the wisdom of others, such as Dr. Dalrymple.

8 Nov 2007
Send an emailthe Way
Hurry, Mr. Daniels! It's cold outside.... C'mon in and warm yourself up...

8 Nov 2007
peter herz
The joke's on your Dutch friend who wants to convert to Catholicism: Johann Sebastien Bach was the most devout of Lutherans, and believed, with the Book of Concord, that the Pope was the antichrist.

9 Nov 2007
just some dude
With the passage of time, holiness doesn't lose it's force of attraction, more than that, it shines with greater luminosity.

9 Nov 2007
Adam
In arguing, for example, that for parents to bring up a child in any religious tradition, even the mildest of Anglicanism, is to abuse a child... some of the authors are giving ammunition to the Islamists, who will be able with justice to say to their fellow-religionists, See, it is all or nothing. If you give the secularists an inch, they will take a mile. No compromise with secularism is possible, therefore; cleave unto us.

This is why secularism shall never defeat radical Islam. The average Muslim might only suspect that suicide bombings and beheadings are wrong, but he knows that God exists. When faced with a choice between two ideologies, one that affirms God's existance and espouses violence (radical Islam), and another that denies God's existance and espouses nonviolence (secularism), he's going to take the former every time.

Radical Islam is a diseased spirituality. It cannot be defeated by no spirituality. It can only be defeated by healthy spirituality. The future of Europe is Christian or Muslim. It's not secular.


17 Nov 2007
gavun lewis
Thank you Mr Dalrymple, once again. A cool clear breeze of common sense in my wolrld of heated clamour.

20 Nov 2007
Send an emailZZMike

Is someone who studies the history and philosophy of atheism an atheologist?

As for Hitchens, Dawkins &c - and especially Dennett - there are far too many bright people (real "brights") who have embraced religion - many later in life - like Chesterton, C. S. Lewis, Tolkien, T. S. Eliot, to name just a few.

 



22 Nov 2007
Send an emailLaurie

"Clever" people are almost always limited in their cleverness to the particular field or fields in which they excel.  To claim their belief as an argument for religion makes no sense.  I offer a statistical disproof of religion as follows.

At least 90% of religious belief has to be wrong since it is mutually exclusive...if you believe in Mohammed you can't also believe in Jehovah etc.  Now since there is no evidence to indicate one set of beliefs is more accurate than another the only reasonable statistical inference is.......they're all wrong!

I regularly apply this process when questioning students.  If they all tell different stories......they're all lying!



29 Nov 2007
Send an emailshannon grubb

Nice piece, Mr. Dalrymple.  Your comment to your friend in paragraph 6,  "...it was also possible that the belief would come with the observance rather than the other way around" is a restatement of an ancient maxim observed and experienced by the orthodox:  lex orandi, lex credendi.

Well said, Mr. McCormick.  I think you'd like an article in the recent National Review, "Enemies of the Soul" (or something like that.)  Re: atheist authors, I picked up Harris' book, opened it randomly to a page, and within a few sentences was reading an outright, bald-faced lie.  No need to read further: a lack of literary  integrity on one page means you can't trust the other pages. 

I recommend GK Chesterton's Orthodoxy for any of you.  Push yourself thru the intial chapters for later rewards, and excuse some of its datedness.

S.D.G.



1 Dec 2007
Send an emailPedar MacCodagh
These atheistic books are laughable.  Their authors bang on about about science but their arguments are themselves deeply un-scientific. These books are bought by people who hope that they can live by bread alone. This is not true and never will be.

7 Mar 2008
David Tonkin
I agree with your comments on the criticism of religion by atheist. I was listening to Richard Dawkins on Australia's Radio National Science Show. His comments were amazingly hostile. I wrote to them as follows: Your show about God was a bit rabid and seemed to leave rational debate or simple courtesy behind. I have listened to your show for years beyond count. I am disappointed in this decline from reason to ridicule. Atheism is a religion. I has its beliefs and dogmas. It would be rational and honest to acknowlege your faith when attacking others. The reply from the program's presenter was: You are welcome to your opinion. We don't remember ridicule. Prof Dawkins answered the point about atheism as a religion. It pays to look at his book to see what he really means. RW I might have expected more from liberal, educated, middle-class media, but I didn't get it. Thankyou for your thoughtful articles. David

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