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In Praise of Prejudice: The Necessity of Preconceived Ideas
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Defending The West:
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Nations, Language and Citizenship:
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Romancing Opiates
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Which Koran?
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Our Culture, What's Left of It
by Theodore Dalrymple |
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What The Koran Really Says
by Ibn Warraq |
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Life at the Bottom
by Theodore Dalrymple |
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The Origins of the Koran
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Why I Am Not Muslim
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Spanish Vignettes: An Offbeat Look Into Spain's Culture, Society & History
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Leaving Islam
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Thursday, 8 May 2008
Vatican Flypaper May Entrap Shia Iran
 Dr. Richard L. Rubenstein, noted theologian, distinguished university professor of comparative religion and former University president is among the few academics who ‘get it’ about the threat of radical Islam. He sent a number of us an interesting article about a recent Vatican encounter with Shia clerics captured in a La Chiesa article entitled: “When the Turbans of Persia Pay Homage to the Pastor of Rome.”
The La Chiesa article noted the following:
The latest talks with Muslim representatives took place in the Vatican, with eight representatives of the Islamic Culture and Relations Organization of Tehran, and therefore with representatives of Shiite Islam, which has its center of gravity in Iran but is present in many other countries, with a following that accounts for about 12-15 percent of the Muslim community worldwide.
The colloquium began on Monday, April 28, and concluded on Wednesday, April 30, with a meeting with Benedict XVI in a room adjacent to the general audience hall. The Holy See, in a statement, reported that "the pope said he was particularly satisfied with the topic chosen."
And in effect, the topic was one of those most dear to Joseph Ratzinger: "Faith and Reason in Christianity and Islam".
It was developed in three subtopics, each introduced by one Catholic representative and one Muslim:
1. "Faith and reason: Which relation?", with the speaker for the Catholic side Vittorio Possenti, a professor of political philosophy at the University of Venice and a member of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences;
2. "Theology/Kalam as inquiry into the rationality of faith," with the speaker for the Catholic side Piero Coda, a professor of theology at the Pontifical Lateran University and the president of the Italian Theological Association;
3. "Faith and reason confronted with the phenomenon of violence," with the speaker for the Catholic side Jesuit Fr. Michel Fédou, a theologian and Church historian of the Centre Sèvres in Paris.
The Shia delegation was headed by a ‘spiritual adviser” to Mahdist Iranian President Ahmadinejad. Note this:
Jointly presiding over the colloquium were Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, president of the pontifical council for interreligious dialogue, and Mahdi Mostafavi, president of the Islamic Culture and Relations Organization of Tehran.
Mostafavi is a "Seyyed," or one of the direct descendants of the prophet Muhammad, and until two years ago he was deputy foreign minister of Iran. Before returning to Iran, he told the Rome newspaper "il Riformista":
"I see president Ahmadinejad at least two times a week. Spiritual and moral values are fundamental in our government decisions, and I am his spiritual adviser".
This is enough to demonstrate how high the profile of the Iranian designation is, and how closely connected it is to the leadership of Ahamadinejad, an exponent of the most hardline wing of the Khomeinist regime, the one most hostile to the West and most explicit in denying the state of Israel's right to exist.
The two day colloquium came up with ‘agreement’:
At the end of the colloquium of April 28-30, the two delegations agreed on seven points, which were summarized in a statement as follows:
"1. Faith and reason are both gifts of God to mankind.
"2. Faith and reason do not contradict each other, but faith might in some cases be above reason, but never against it.
"3. Faith and reason are intrinsically non-violent. Neither reason nor faith should be used for violence; unfortunately, both of them have been sometimes misused to perpetrate violence. In any case, these events cannot question either reason or faith.
"4. Both sides agreed to further co-operate in order to promote genuine religiosity, in particular spirituality, to encourage respect for symbols considered to be sacred and to promote moral values.
"5. Christians and Muslims should go beyond tolerance, accepting differences, while remaining aware of commonalities and thanking God for them. They are called to mutual respect, thereby condemning derision of religious beliefs.
"6. Generalization should be avoided when speaking of religions. Differences of confessions within Christianity and Islam, diversity of historical contexts are important factors to be considered.
"7. Religious traditions cannot be judged on the basis of a single verse or a passage present in their respective holy Books. A holistic vision as well as an adequate hermeneutical method is necessary for a fair understanding of them."
A noted authority on the Islamic Law of Jihad and threat doctrine observes:
“I think the Vatican trapped Tehran in fly paper and will use it to demonstrate over time that Islam cannot agree to the terms they accepted as the condition for getting the joint declaration.”
We’d like to believe that pope Benedict XVI has the cut off the jib under those Shia Turbans and will wait for the appropriate moment to paste them on the ‘flypaper’ that Coughlin sees in the statements from this Vatican colloquium. Bat Ye’or, ever the Cassandra warns us that the choice we have in America: Freedom or Dhimmitude. As Frank Gaffney has recently argued, America is now on the slippery slope to Amerabia. That eventuality must be stopped dead in its tracks if our Judeo Christian civilization is to survive this ‘long war” with Islam in the 21st Century.
Posted on 5:39 PM by Jerry Gordon
Comments
8 May 2008
 Rebecca Bynum
The reasoning system of Islam is based on a different set of principles than ours. Bill Warner is right about this - contradictions in Islam are not resolved, but nevertheless, reason still functions. Trying to make Muslims see or admit that Islam is not reasonable won't work because it is reasonable within the Islamic context. They literally think within a different paradigm. 9 May 2008
Special Guest
In classical Boolean logic, a proposition is either true or false. On the other hand, SQL logic is often trinary, not binary; the additional state being "NULL", or not known, but not true and not false.
Islamic logic is similarly non-binary, but in a different way. A proposition can be false, and also true, with no sense of inconsistency. One can argue that OBL had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks, and yet laud OBL for bringing the Great Satan to her knees, without any need to reconcile the two statements. One can claim that the holy, holy Qur'an is the perfect and immutable word of Allah, and then be required to set up rules of abrogation to explain how to resolve the many inconsistencies contained within, without even a small L.E.D. going off in the mind of the speaker.
If Allah cannot make up His mind whether Christians and Jews are protected followers of Abraham, or infidels who must be slain wherever they are found, why should mere mortals be confined to binary logic, or consistency over time?
If Pope Benedict XVI wants proof that Islam cannot agree to the conditions of the declarations to which they are signatories, one need only look back at 1400 years of history, starting with the Treaty of Huddabiyah. If the Pope is trying to entrap them in fly-paper, fly-paper is not going to do much to control a snarling rabid pitbull.
I think any attempt to use logic to entrap Muslims, or to outsmart them, is destined to end in failure. The entropy of the system far outweighs whatever complexity one can build into one's best-laid plans. Taking into account the "Me against my brother, my brother and I against our cousin, the three of us against our tribe, our tribe against the neighbors, (and so on ad nauseum)" mindset, and the complex web of contradictory allegiances they simultaneously hold, their behavior becomes too complex to be modeled; their behavior defies predictive estimates andr stymies attempts at rational analysis. It would be easier to treat it as random behavior, and set our policy accordingly. No treaties, no interfaith dialogues. Just fences, both literal and figurative, between Dar al-Harb and Dar al-Islam.
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