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Monday, 18 April 2011
How To Talk To A Climate Skeptic Bookmark and Share
clear
Re-posted again, as it will be whenever the occasion -- and so many occasions claim to inform against me --  warrants:
 
 15 July 2010
Coby Beck On "How To Talk To A Climate Skeptic" (Bis)
 
 31 March 2010
How To Talk To A Climate Skeptic (Booster Shot)
One More Time: How To Talk to A Climate Skeptic

How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic

 

Below is a complete listing of the articles in "How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic," a series by Coby Beck containing responses to the most common skeptical arguments on global warming. There are four separate taxonomies; arguments are divided by:

Individual articles will appear under multiple headings and may even appear in multiple subcategories in the same heading.

Stages of Denial

1.       There's nothing happening

a.       Inadequate evidence

§         There is no evidence

§         One record year is not global warming

§         The temperature record is simply unreliable

§         One hundred years is not enough

§         Glaciers have always grown and receded

§         Warming is due to the Urban Heat Island effect

§         Mauna Loa is a volcano

§         The scientists aren't even sure

b.       Contradictory evidence

§         It's cold today in Wagga Wagga

§         Antarctic ice is growing

§         The satellites show cooling

§         What about mid-century cooling?

§         Global warming stopped in 1998

§         But the glaciers are not melting

§         Antarctic sea ice is increasing

§         Observations show climate sensitivity is not very high

§         Sea level in the Arctic is falling

§         Some sites show cooling

c.        No consensus

§         Global warming is a hoax

§         There is no consensus

§         Position statements hide debate

§         Consensus is collusion

§         Peiser refuted Oreskes

2.       We don't know why it's happening

a.       Models don't work

§         We cannot trust unproven computer models

§         The models don't have clouds

§         If aerosols are blocking the sun, the south should warm faster

§         Observations show climate sensitivity is not very high

b.       Prediction is impossible

§         We can't even predict the weather next week

§         Chaotic systems are not predictable

c.        We can't be sure

§         The modelers won't tell us how confident they are in the models

§         Hansen has been wrong before

§         If we can't understand the past, how can we understand the present?

§         The scientists aren't even sure

§         They predicted global cooling in the 1970s

3.       Climate change is natural

a.       It happened before

§         It was warmer during the Holocene Climatic Optimum

§         The medieval warm period was just as warm as today

§         Greenland used to be green

§         Global warming is nothing new!

§         The hockey stick is broken

§         Vineland was full of grapes

b.       It's part of a natural change

§         Current global warming is just part of a natural cycle

§         Mars and Pluto are warming too

§         CO2 in the air comes mostly from volcanoes

§         The null hypothesis says global warming is natural

§         Climate is always changing

§         Natural emissions dwarf human emissions

§         The CO2 rise is natural

§         Today's warming is just a recovery from the Little Ice Age

c.        It's not caused by CO2

§         Why don't they ever mention water vapor?

§         Water vapor's greenhouse effect overwhelms CO2

§         There is no proof that CO2 is causing global warming

§         Mars and Pluto are warming too

§         CO2 lags, not leads

§         What about mid-century cooling?

§         Geological history does not support CO2's importance

§         Historically, CO2 never caused temperature change

§         It's the sun, stupid

4.       Climate change is not bad

a.       The effects are good

§         A warmer world will be better

b.       The effects are minor

§         Any ice melt will just go into groundwater

c.        Change is normal

5.       Climate change can't be stopped

a.       Too late

§         Kyoto is ineffective

b.       It's someone else's problem

§         Why should the U.S. join Kyoto?

§         The U.S. is a net CO2 sink

c.        Economically infeasible

§         Action on global warming is suicide

Scientific Topics

1.       Temperature

o        There is no evidence

o        The temperature record is simply unreliable

o        One hundred years is not enough

o        Current global warming is just part of a natural cycle

o        A warmer world will be better

o        It's cold today in Wagga Wagga

o        Warming is due to the Urban Heat Island effect

o        The satellites show cooling

o        Global warming stopped in 1998

o        They predicted global cooling in the 1970s

o        Some sites show cooling

2.       Atmosphere

3.       Extreme events

a.       Temperature records

§         One record year is not global warming

§         It's cold today in Wagga Wagga

b.       Storms

c.        Droughts

4.       Cryosphere

 .         Glaciers

§         Glaciers have always grown and receded

§         But the glaciers are not melting

a.       Sea ice

§         Antarctic sea ice is increasing

b.       Ice sheets

§         Antarctic ice is growing

§         Greenland used to be green

§         Any ice melt will just go into groundwater

5.       Oceans

o        Sea level in the Arctic is falling

6.       Modeling

 .         Scenarios

§         Kyoto is ineffective

§         Hansen has been wrong before

a.       Uncertainties

§         We can't even predict the weather next week

§         Chaotic systems are not predictable

§         We cannot trust unproven computer models

§         The modelers won't tell us how confident they are in the models

§         The models don't have clouds

7.       Climate forcings

 .         Solar influences

§         Mars and Pluto are warming too

§         It's the sun, stupid

a.       Greenhouse gases

§         Why don't they ever mention water vapor?

§         Water vapor's greenhouse effect overwhelms CO2

§         There is no proof that CO2 is causing global warming

§         CO2 lags, not leads

§         CO2 in the air comes mostly from volcanoes

§         What about mid-century cooling?

§         Geological history does not support CO2's importance

§         Natural emissions dwarf human emissions

§         Mauna Loa is a volcano

§         The CO2 rise is natural

§         Historically, CO2 never caused temperature change

§         The US is a net CO2 sink

§         Observations show climate sensitivity is not very high

b.       Aerosols

§         What about mid-century cooling?

§         If aerosols are blocking the sun, the south should warm faster

8.       Paleo climate

 .         Holocene

§         It was warmer during the Holocene Climatic Optimum

§         The medieval warm period was just as warm as today

§         Greenland used to be green

§         The hockey stick is broken

§         Vineland was full of grapes

§         Today's warming is just a recovery from the Little Ice Age

a.       Ice ages

§         CO2 lags, not leads

§         Global warming is nothing new!

b.       Geologic history

§         A warmer world will be better

§         Geological history does not support CO2's importance

§         Climate is always changing

§         Historically, CO2 never caused temperature change

§         If we can't understand the past, how can we understand the present?

9.       Scientific process

o        Global warming is a hoax

o        There is no proof that CO2 is causing global warming

o        There is no consensus

o        The null hypothesis says global warming is natural

o        Position statements hide debate

o        If we can't understand the past, how can we understand the present?

o        The scientists aren't even sure

o        Consensus is collusion

o        Peiser refuted Oreskes

Types of Argument

1.       Uninformed

o        There is no evidence

o        One record year is not global warming

o        One hundred years is not enough

o        There is no proof that CO2 is causing global warming

o        A warmer world will be better

o        Action on global warming is suicide

o        There is no consensus

o        We cannot trust unproven computer models

2.       Misinformed

o        It was warmer during the Holocene Climatic Optimum

o        The medieval warm period was just as warm as today

o        Antarctic ice is growing

o        CO2 in the air comes mostly from volcanoes

o        Greenland used to be green

o        The satellites show cooling

o        Natural emissions dwarf human emissions

o        It's the sun, stupid

o        The U.S. is a net CO2 sink

o        But the glaciers are not melting

o        Antarctic sea ice is increasing

o        They predicted global cooling in the 1970s

o        Vineland was full of grapes

3.       Cherry Picking

o        It's cold today in Wagga Wagga

o        Antarctic sea ice is growing

o        The satellites show cooling

o        Global warming stopped in 1998

o        Antarctic sea ice is increasing

o        Vineland was full of grapes

o        Observations show climate sensitivity is not very high

o        The sea level in the Arctic is falling

o        Some sites show cooling

4.       Urban Myths

o        The medieval warm period was just as warm as today

o        CO2 in the air comes mostly from volcanoes

o        Greenland used to be green

o        Hansen has been wrong before

o        They predicted global cooling in the 1970s

o        Vineland was full of grapes

5.       FUD

o        The temperature record is simply unreliable

o        Glaciers have always grown and receded

o        Why don't they ever mention water vapor?

o        Water vapor's greenhouse effect overwhelms CO2

o        Current global warming is just part of a natural cycle

o        Kyoto is ineffective

o        Mars and Pluto are warming too

o        It's cold today in Wagga Wagga

o        CO2 lags, not leads

o        There is no consensus

o        Antarctic ice is growing

o        Warming is due to the Urban Heat Island effect

o        We can't even predict the weather next week

o        Chaotic systems are not predictable

o        What about mid-century cooling?

o        The null hypothesis says global warming is natural

o        Geological history does not support CO2's importance

o        Climate is always changing

o        Natural emissions dwarf human emissions

o        Mauna Loa is a volcano

o        Global warming is nothing new!

o        The CO2 rise is natural

o        The hockey stick is broken

o        Historically, CO2 never caused temperature change

o        The models don't have clouds

o        Global warming stopped in 1998

o        If we can't understand the past, how can we understand the present?

o        If aerosols are blocking the sun, the south should warm faster

o        The scientists aren't even sure

o        Antarctic sea ice is increasing

o        Peiser refuted Oreskes

o        Vineland was full of grapes

o        Observations Show Climate Sensitivity Is Not Very High

o        Sea level in the Arctic is falling

o        Today's warming is just a recovery from the Little Ice Age

6.       Non Scientific

o        Global warming is a hoax

o        Kyoto is ineffective

o        Why should the U.S. join Kyoto?

o        The modelers won't tell us how confident they are in the models

o        Hansen has been wrong before

o        Position statements hide debate

o        The scientists aren't even sure

o        Consensus is collusion

o        They predicted global cooling in the 1970s

7.       Underdog Theories

8.       Crackpottery

o        Any ice melt will just go into groundwater

Levels of Sophistication

1.       Silly

o        There is no evidence

o        Global warming is a hoax

o        One record year is not global warming

o        Action on global warming is suicide

o        Mars and Pluto are warming too

o        Mauna Loa is a volcano

o        Any ice melt will just go into groundwater

o        The modelers won't tell us how confident they are in the models

2.       Naive

o        One hundred years is not enough

o        Glaciers have always grown and receded

o        Why should the U.S. join Kyoto?

o        It's cold today in Wagga Wagga

o        CO2 in the air comes mostly from volcanoes

o        We can't even predict the weather next week

o        We can not trust unproven computer models

o        The satellites show cooling

o        Natural emissions dwarf human emissions

o        The models don't have clouds

o        Global warming stopped in 1998

o        It's the sun, stupid

o        If we can't understand the past, how can we understand the present?

o        The scientists aren't even sure

o        Vineland was full of grapes

o        Some sites show cooling

3.       Specious

o        The temperature record is simply unreliable

o        Why don't they ever mention water vapor?

o        There is no proof that CO2 is causing global warming

o        Current global warming is just part of a natural cycle

o        It was warmer during the Holocene Climatic Optimum

o        The medieval warm period was just as warm as today

o        A warmer world will be better

o        Kyoto is ineffective

o        CO2 lags, not leads

o        There is no consensus

o        Antarctic ice is growing

o        Warming is due to the Urban Heat Island effect

o        Greenland used to be green

o        What about mid-century cooling?

o        The null hypothesis says global warming is natural

o        Geological history does not support CO2's importance

o        Climate is always changing

o        Global warming is nothing new!

o        The CO2 rise is natural

o        Historically, CO2 never causes temperature change

o        Hansen has been wrong before

o        Position statements hide debate

o        The U.S. is a net CO2 sink

o        But the glaciers are not melting

o        If aerosols are blocking the sun, the south should warm faster

o        Antarctic sea ice is increasing

o        Consensus is collusion

o        They predicted global cooling in the 1970s

o        Peiser refuted Oreskes

o        Vineland was full of grapes

4.       Scientific

o        Water vapor's greenhouse effect overwhelms CO2

o        Chaotic systems are not predictable

o        The hockey stick is broken

o        Observations show climate sensitivity is not very high

o        Sea level in the Arctic is falling

o        Today's warming is just a recovery from the Little Ice Age

Thursday, 15 July 2010
Coby Beck On "How To Talk To A Climate Skeptic" (Bis)
Wednesday, 31 March 2010
How To Talk To A Climate Skeptic (Booster Shot)
One More Time: How To Talk to A Climate Skeptic

How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic

 

Below is a complete listing of the articles in "How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic," a series by Coby Beck containing responses to the most common skeptical arguments on global warming. There are four separate taxonomies; arguments are divided by:

Individual articles will appear under multiple headings and may even appear in multiple subcategories in the same heading.

Stages of Denial

1.       There's nothing happening

a.       Inadequate evidence

§         There is no evidence

§         One record year is not global warming

§         The temperature record is simply unreliable

§         One hundred years is not enough

§         Glaciers have always grown and receded

§         Warming is due to the Urban Heat Island effect

§         Mauna Loa is a volcano

§         The scientists aren't even sure

b.       Contradictory evidence

§         It's cold today in Wagga Wagga

§         Antarctic ice is growing

§         The satellites show cooling

§         What about mid-century cooling?

§         Global warming stopped in 1998

§         But the glaciers are not melting

§         Antarctic sea ice is increasing

§         Observations show climate sensitivity is not very high

§         Sea level in the Arctic is falling

§         Some sites show cooling

c.        No consensus

§         Global warming is a hoax

§         There is no consensus

§         Position statements hide debate

§         Consensus is collusion

§         Peiser refuted Oreskes

2.       We don't know why it's happening

a.       Models don't work

§         We cannot trust unproven computer models

§         The models don't have clouds

§         If aerosols are blocking the sun, the south should warm faster

§         Observations show climate sensitivity is not very high

b.       Prediction is impossible

§         We can't even predict the weather next week

§         Chaotic systems are not predictable

c.        We can't be sure

§         The modelers won't tell us how confident they are in the models

§         Hansen has been wrong before

§         If we can't understand the past, how can we understand the present?

§         The scientists aren't even sure

§         They predicted global cooling in the 1970s

3.       Climate change is natural

a.       It happened before

§         It was warmer during the Holocene Climatic Optimum

§         The medieval warm period was just as warm as today

§         Greenland used to be green

§         Global warming is nothing new!

§         The hockey stick is broken

§         Vineland was full of grapes

b.       It's part of a natural change

§         Current global warming is just part of a natural cycle

§         Mars and Pluto are warming too

§         CO2 in the air comes mostly from volcanoes

§         The null hypothesis says global warming is natural

§         Climate is always changing

§         Natural emissions dwarf human emissions

§         The CO2 rise is natural

§         Today's warming is just a recovery from the Little Ice Age

c.        It's not caused by CO2

§         Why don't they ever mention water vapor?

§         Water vapor's greenhouse effect overwhelms CO2

§         There is no proof that CO2 is causing global warming

§         Mars and Pluto are warming too

§         CO2 lags, not leads

§         What about mid-century cooling?

§         Geological history does not support CO2's importance

§         Historically, CO2 never caused temperature change

§         It's the sun, stupid

4.       Climate change is not bad

a.       The effects are good

§         A warmer world will be better

b.       The effects are minor

§         Any ice melt will just go into groundwater

c.        Change is normal

5.       Climate change can't be stopped

a.       Too late

§         Kyoto is ineffective

b.       It's someone else's problem

§         Why should the U.S. join Kyoto?

§         The U.S. is a net CO2 sink

c.        Economically infeasible

§         Action on global warming is suicide

Scientific Topics

1.       Temperature

o        There is no evidence

o        The temperature record is simply unreliable

o        One hundred years is not enough

o        Current global warming is just part of a natural cycle

o        A warmer world will be better

o        It's cold today in Wagga Wagga

o        Warming is due to the Urban Heat Island effect

o        The satellites show cooling

o        Global warming stopped in 1998

o        They predicted global cooling in the 1970s

o        Some sites show cooling

2.       Atmosphere

3.       Extreme events

a.       Temperature records

§         One record year is not global warming

§         It's cold today in Wagga Wagga

b.       Storms

c.        Droughts

4.       Cryosphere

 .         Glaciers

§         Glaciers have always grown and receded

§         But the glaciers are not melting

a.       Sea ice

§         Antarctic sea ice is increasing

b.       Ice sheets

§         Antarctic ice is growing

§         Greenland used to be green

§         Any ice melt will just go into groundwater

5.       Oceans

o        Sea level in the Arctic is falling

6.       Modeling

 .         Scenarios

§         Kyoto is ineffective

§         Hansen has been wrong before

a.       Uncertainties

§         We can't even predict the weather next week

§         Chaotic systems are not predictable

§         We cannot trust unproven computer models

§         The modelers won't tell us how confident they are in the models

§         The models don't have clouds

7.       Climate forcings

 .         Solar influences

§         Mars and Pluto are warming too

§         It's the sun, stupid

a.       Greenhouse gases

§         Why don't they ever mention water vapor?

§         Water vapor's greenhouse effect overwhelms CO2

§         There is no proof that CO2 is causing global warming

§         CO2 lags, not leads

§         CO2 in the air comes mostly from volcanoes

§         What about mid-century cooling?

§         Geological history does not support CO2's importance

§         Natural emissions dwarf human emissions

§         Mauna Loa is a volcano

§         The CO2 rise is natural

§         Historically, CO2 never caused temperature change

§         The US is a net CO2 sink

§         Observations show climate sensitivity is not very high

b.       Aerosols

§         What about mid-century cooling?

§         If aerosols are blocking the sun, the south should warm faster

8.       Paleo climate

 .         Holocene

§         It was warmer during the Holocene Climatic Optimum

§         The medieval warm period was just as warm as today

§         Greenland used to be green

§         The hockey stick is broken

§         Vineland was full of grapes

§         Today's warming is just a recovery from the Little Ice Age

a.       Ice ages

§         CO2 lags, not leads

§         Global warming is nothing new!

b.       Geologic history

§         A warmer world will be better

§         Geological history does not support CO2's importance

§         Climate is always changing

§         Historically, CO2 never caused temperature change

§         If we can't understand the past, how can we understand the present?

9.       Scientific process

o        Global warming is a hoax

o        There is no proof that CO2 is causing global warming

o        There is no consensus

o        The null hypothesis says global warming is natural

o        Position statements hide debate

o        If we can't understand the past, how can we understand the present?

o        The scientists aren't even sure

o        Consensus is collusion

o        Peiser refuted Oreskes

Types of Argument

1.       Uninformed

o        There is no evidence

o        One record year is not global warming

o        One hundred years is not enough

o        There is no proof that CO2 is causing global warming

o        A warmer world will be better

o        Action on global warming is suicide

o        There is no consensus

o        We cannot trust unproven computer models

2.       Misinformed

o        It was warmer during the Holocene Climatic Optimum

o        The medieval warm period was just as warm as today

o        Antarctic ice is growing

o        CO2 in the air comes mostly from volcanoes

o        Greenland used to be green

o        The satellites show cooling

o        Natural emissions dwarf human emissions

o        It's the sun, stupid

o        The U.S. is a net CO2 sink

o        But the glaciers are not melting

o        Antarctic sea ice is increasing

o        They predicted global cooling in the 1970s

o        Vineland was full of grapes

3.       Cherry Picking

o        It's cold today in Wagga Wagga

o        Antarctic sea ice is growing

o        The satellites show cooling

o        Global warming stopped in 1998

o        Antarctic sea ice is increasing

o        Vineland was full of grapes

o        Observations show climate sensitivity is not very high

o        The sea level in the Arctic is falling

o        Some sites show cooling

4.       Urban Myths

o        The medieval warm period was just as warm as today

o        CO2 in the air comes mostly from volcanoes

o        Greenland used to be green

o        Hansen has been wrong before

o        They predicted global cooling in the 1970s

o        Vineland was full of grapes

5.       FUD

o        The temperature record is simply unreliable

o        Glaciers have always grown and receded

o        Why don't they ever mention water vapor?

o        Water vapor's greenhouse effect overwhelms CO2

o        Current global warming is just part of a natural cycle

o        Kyoto is ineffective

o        Mars and Pluto are warming too

o        It's cold today in Wagga Wagga

o        CO2 lags, not leads

o        There is no consensus

o        Antarctic ice is growing

o        Warming is due to the Urban Heat Island effect

o        We can't even predict the weather next week

o        Chaotic systems are not predictable

o        What about mid-century cooling?

o        The null hypothesis says global warming is natural

o        Geological history does not support CO2's importance

o        Climate is always changing

o        Natural emissions dwarf human emissions

o        Mauna Loa is a volcano

o        Global warming is nothing new!

o        The CO2 rise is natural

o        The hockey stick is broken

o        Historically, CO2 never caused temperature change

o        The models don't have clouds

o        Global warming stopped in 1998

o        If we can't understand the past, how can we understand the present?

o        If aerosols are blocking the sun, the south should warm faster

o        The scientists aren't even sure

o        Antarctic sea ice is increasing

o        Peiser refuted Oreskes

o        Vineland was full of grapes

o        Observations Show Climate Sensitivity Is Not Very High

o        Sea level in the Arctic is falling

o        Today's warming is just a recovery from the Little Ice Age

6.       Non Scientific

o        Global warming is a hoax

o        Kyoto is ineffective

o        Why should the U.S. join Kyoto?

o        The modelers won't tell us how confident they are in the models

o        Hansen has been wrong before

o        Position statements hide debate

o        The scientists aren't even sure

o        Consensus is collusion

o        They predicted global cooling in the 1970s

7.       Underdog Theories

8.       Crackpottery

o        Any ice melt will just go into groundwater

Levels of Sophistication

1.       Silly

o        There is no evidence

o        Global warming is a hoax

o        One record year is not global warming

o        Action on global warming is suicide

o        Mars and Pluto are warming too

o        Mauna Loa is a volcano

o        Any ice melt will just go into groundwater

o        The modelers won't tell us how confident they are in the models

2.       Naive

o        One hundred years is not enough

o        Glaciers have always grown and receded

o        Why should the U.S. join Kyoto?

o        It's cold today in Wagga Wagga

o        CO2 in the air comes mostly from volcanoes

o        We can't even predict the weather next week

o        We can not trust unproven computer models

o        The satellites show cooling

o        Natural emissions dwarf human emissions

o        The models don't have clouds

o        Global warming stopped in 1998

o        It's the sun, stupid

o        If we can't understand the past, how can we understand the present?

o        The scientists aren't even sure

o        Vineland was full of grapes

o        Some sites show cooling

3.       Specious

o        The temperature record is simply unreliable

o        Why don't they ever mention water vapor?

o        There is no proof that CO2 is causing global warming

o        Current global warming is just part of a natural cycle

o        It was warmer during the Holocene Climatic Optimum

o        The medieval warm period was just as warm as today

o        A warmer world will be better

o        Kyoto is ineffective

o        CO2 lags, not leads

o        There is no consensus

o        Antarctic ice is growing

o        Warming is due to the Urban Heat Island effect

o        Greenland used to be green

o        What about mid-century cooling?

o        The null hypothesis says global warming is natural

o        Geological history does not support CO2's importance

o        Climate is always changing

o        Global warming is nothing new!

o        The CO2 rise is natural

o        Historically, CO2 never causes temperature change

o        Hansen has been wrong before

o        Position statements hide debate

o        The U.S. is a net CO2 sink

o        But the glaciers are not melting

o        If aerosols are blocking the sun, the south should warm faster

o        Antarctic sea ice is increasing

o        Consensus is collusion

o        They predicted global cooling in the 1970s

o        Peiser refuted Oreskes

o        Vineland was full of grapes

4.       Scientific

o        Water vapor's greenhouse effect overwhelms CO2

o        Chaotic systems are not predictable

o        The hockey stick is broken

o        Observations show climate sensitivity is not very high

o        Sea level in the Arctic is falling

o        Today's warming is just a recovery from the Little Ice Age

clear
Posted on 04/18/2011 8:18 AM by Hugh Fitzgerald
Comments
18 Apr 2011
Andreas C

There is certainly no question the world has been warming, but this does not mean it was caused by man's CO2 emissions. The warming began during the ~18th century, but human-induced CO2 output only became meaningful around WW1-WW2. Something else started the warming trend. Further, CO2 emissions have soared in the past decade but, looking at the satellite record, there has been no statistically significant warming to match. A decade is too short, of course, but the temperature has absolutely failed so far to meet the models' predictions.

Yes CO2 does warm the planet, but by a small amount, and at a decreasing rate. As your copy/paste mentions, it is only ~30% of the warming predicted, this would not be catastrophic. The bulk of the warming predicted by the models is caused by feedback effects that magnify the initial CO2 induced warming to catastrophic levels. This is the critical part. The models assume the feedback effects are positive, but they could work the other way, to mitigate the initial warming, rather than enhance it – our understanding of how the atmosphere works is very poor. Critically we should already be seeing the positive feedbacks in action, as a hotspot in the upper troposphere, but the evidence is not there. Try for example: "Where is the evidence for the dangerous positive feedback in the Vostok Ice Cores?" http://joannenova.com.au/2010/12/where-is-the-positive-feedback-not-in-the-icecores/

And: http://joannenova.com.au/2010/10/is-the-western-climate-establishment-corrupt-part-9-the-heart-of-the-matter-and-the-coloring-in-trick/



18 Apr 2011
Send an emailAndreas C

Also, to quote Yes, Minister, "trains are impartial, but if you lay down the rails for them, that's the way they'll go". In the 80's it was about the science, human-induced global warming was a theory subject to the normal scientific method of looking at the evidence and trying to falsify the hypothesis. By the late 90's and 2000's politicians, bureaucrats, the media and celebrities had all hitched their wagons to the cause. Everyone is in too deep to back out now.

The vast bulk of climate scientists work for government. What gets funding is what proves global warming, not what disproves it, because that's what politicians want to hear. If you're a scientist struggling to get a research grant it's tough, but if you can include the words "global warming" in your application somehow, bingo. I am not suggesting system-wide fraud, I am suggesting, as in Yes, Minister, the scientists are "impartial" but if the politicians set the terms of reference they'll follow the lines laid out for them and magically reach the preordained conclusion. Try for example "Way back when climate scientists were scientists" http://joannenova.com.au/2011/03/way-back-when-climate-scientists-were-scientists-chapter-8-far/



18 Apr 2011
Christina McIntosh

 It has always struck me that there is a curious similarity between the responses of those who do not wish the world to heed the increasingly dire warnings being delivered by a great many serious scientists, and the responses of those who do not wish the world to heed the increasingly dire warnings that are being delivered by those who are currently vilified as 'Islamophobes'.

In both cases the worried scientists and the worried 'Islamophobes' are essentially accused of being either ignorant, or deceived (they don't properly understand the incredible complexity of their subject, they're not proper scientists, or else they're not proper scholarst), or - worse - in somebody's pay or on the make, involved in some vast and evil conspiracy.

To make things even odder, many of those who are prepared to believe the warnings of the islamophobes are adamantly convinced that the warnings of the climate scientists are bunkum; and vice versa...



19 Apr 2011
Christina McIntosh

 There is a further point I would like to make.  

One of the great unpublicised problems in both the first world and the third world is the **loss** of carbon from soil in agricultural lands.

Soils with high carbon content retain water and nutrients better, and produce better quality crops.

see this article, for example, which appeared in 'The Australian' in February this year.

www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/what-happens-when-the-food-runs-out/story-e6frg6z6-1226004670563

"There is now a much better understanding of the intimate relationship between carbon and the physical structure of soil and the working engine of soil.  Scientists agree there is a threshold carbon level of between 1.1 and 1.5 percent in the surface layer, and if the carbon content goes below that then soil functions begin to deteriorate.  Most soils of Africa and Asia, and in some areas of Australia, have a carbon concentration as low as 0.1 percent."

It boils down to making it financially viable for farmers to return crop residues to the soil.  If they do that - if we go back to mulch farming and composting - then we build soil carbon, increase productivity, and ...a LOT of carbon dioxide stops sloshing around in the atmosphere and gets locked down into the humus layer where it is very, very useful indeed.

Irrespective of whether climate change is happening due to global civilisational co2 emissions, we *do* know that vast areas of farmland and rangeland are seriously carbon-depleted and this is having a huge impact on productivity - so doing something to fix that would make sense.

For more on soil and soil-building, google 'Peter Andrews' 'Of Drought and flooding rain' 'Natural Sequence Farming' (what Andrews does, does not only restore riparian health, promoting clean water, more water,  biodiversity, and resilience to extreme weather events, but **also** builds soil, especially the humus layer), and then try googling 'terra preta' 'biochar', and 'Farming God's Way' (a basic system of  mulch farming, currently being taught through the churches, which is working wonders for small subsistence farmers in places like Tanzania and Zimbabwe),



19 Apr 2011
Andreas C

Well the normal conspiracy theory that is trotted out when talking about climate change is that sceptics are all in the pay of oil companies. There must be many brown envelopes being passed in dark alleys. There is real money passing to climate scientists before our very eyes, it's called funding, and there's billions of it. It would be foolish indeed to discount its influence, Christina.

We know the more social workers there are, the more problems they will find. The more criminologists you have, the more crime. And if you pay climate scientists to find evidence of global warming... lo and behold... that's what they're going to find. It's not a conspiracy, it's simply what happens when government funnels money into any enterprise, unthinkingly and unaudited, as it always does.

Notice that many sceptics are retired scientists, or who admit they are sceptics upon retirement. Take the words of Joanne Simpson, the first woman to receive a PhD in meteorology: "Since I am no longer affiliated with any organisation nor receive any funding, I can speak quite frankly. … virtually all of the claims are derived from either flawed data sets or imperfect models or both".

There is a conception that scientist are beyond repute, great seekers of truth. The antithesis of used car salesmen and politicians. But "serious scientists", in the end, are just people too.

Anyway, no, we should certainly focus on the evidence first and foremost. Which begs the question, where is the hotspot in the upper troposphere?





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