See Something; Say Nothing: An Interview with DHS Whistleblower, Phillip Haney

by Jerry Gordon, Lisa Benson, Richard Cutting and Jeffrey Epstein (August 2016)


See Something, Say Nothing: A Homeland Security Officer Exposes the Government’s Submission to Jihad

by Philip Haney & Art Moore

WND Books
May 24, 2016

ISBN-13: 9781944229207




Recent testimony before the US Senate Judiciary Committee revealed “willful blindness” by federal law enforcement and immigration agencies to the threat posed by Islamic supremacist homicidal attacks in America. We recently had the opportunity to interview Phillip Haney who testified as a panel member at the breakthrough Senate Judiciary Hearing on “Radical Islam” and terrorism.  Haney is the co-author of best-selling expose, See Something; Say Nothing:  A Homeland Security Officer Exposes the Government’s Submission to Jihad.

Haney is a classic whistleblower with a difference. He morphed from a USDA entomologist (he has a Master’s and an ABD) to become one of the first members of the US Department of Homeland Security’s (DHS) Custom and Border Protection (CBP) service. He half-jokingly said that his training with insects enabled him to follow the ants and other insects back to their nests, identifying their networks. Besides his professional education, he was also linguistically and culturally equipped by dint of episodes in the Middle East and Africa to become conversant in Arabic and Qur’anic Islamic doctrine and sharia law. That enabled Haney as a new DHS officer to ultimate interview and spot Jihadist visa waiver violators at the Port of Atlanta. His natural intellectual curiosity enabled him to spot and intercept more than 300 potential terrorist threats.

His self education also led to writing monographs on the network of jihadist threats in a 2006 Front Page Magazine (FPM) article, Green Tide Rising. It was about the globally designated terrorist group Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood front groups in the US. He has noted in both his book and interviews that his information was two years before the federal Holy Land Foundation trial in Dallas. That trial resulted in multiple convictions for funneling more than $35 million via this Muslim charity to Hamas. It also identified co-conspirators, the Muslim Brotherhood front groups, Council of American Islamic Relations (CAIR), Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), and the Saudi-financed North American Islamic Trust (NAIT) which funds the creation of 80 percent of mosques in the US. Others identified by federal prosecutors included the Muslim American Society (MAS) and the Muslim Students Association (MSA).

That FPM article caused his first brush with the politically correct, civil rights and civil liberties views of the DHS hierarchy that falsely accused Haney of violating security laws regarding alleged confidential information. Upon investigation all of the information in Haney article was drawn from open sources.

Ultimately, he was exonerated, as he was in more than 8 other instances over his 13 years of service at DHS before his retirement in 2015. His expertise was recognized in several assignments. Most notably were assignments at the National Targeting Center of DHS and requests for his assistance by counterterrorism echelons of the FBI. In 2012, five members of the House Homeland Security and Intelligence committees wrote a letter to the Inspector Generals of several defense and national security agencies. They were seeking information on infiltration of Muslim Brotherhood front group members. Haney, on his own recognizance, briefed these and dozens of other members of Congress and Senators who found his analysis both compelling and incisive about the threat the nation faced. Ultimately he would be invited to more than 45 such private Congressional briefings.

The worst episode of the nine investigations brought against him was the convening of a grand jury investigation into allegations stemming from an FBI investigation into a Saudi national student who was injured at the Boston Marathon bombing perpetrated by the Tsarnaev brothers. Haney was in possession of the FBI reports on the Saudi person of interest who was subsequently deported. DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano went on television to indicate that there were no identified perpetrators or suspects before the identities of the Tsarnaev brothers were revealed. Because Haney had briefed members of the House and Senate Homeland Security and Intelligence Committees at the behest of chairmen, he was falsely accused of leaking the information. Napolitano had misinformed Homeland Security Committee members about the existence of the Saudi national who had violated his student Visa. Ultimately, as in the previous eight other episodes, Haney was exonerated just prior to his retirement from DHS.

We queried him about why the FBI and DHS have failed in too many instances to identify network Jihadists. He attributed it to the lack of intelligence sharing and the limitations placed on law enforcement by civil rights and civil liberties priorities of the US Department of Justice and the Department of Homeland Security. That was evident in guidelines that indicated that just because a person belonged to a terrorist backing organization, he or she was not necessarily a terrorist. He illustrated that by his uncovering the network of members of the Tablighi Jamaat, (TJ) meaning “party of the promoters” in Arabic infiltrating the US. They sent domestic madrassa boys abroad from the port of Atlanta to English speaking madrassas in the Republic of South Africa.

The TJ movement sprang from the Deobandi-influenced clerics from India and Pakistan. Haney indicated that TJ Islamic doctrine is the equivalent of ISIS Salafism or Saudi Wahhabism. The TJ movement aimed at proselytizing other Sunni Muslims and gaining converts from other religions. It is estimated to have between 70 to over 120 million adherents globally. Their influence spawned the Taliban and radical terrorist groups like Lashkar e Taiba, Army of the Righteous, whose adherents perpetrated the Mumbai jihad massacre of 2008. In the US, the TJ has a beehive Madrassa; the International Islamic Education School based in Chicago and affiliated with the Bridgewater Islamic Center. Haney suggested that the designation of mosques as “centers” usually was a tip off that it was a TJ doctrine group.

When news broke of the Orlando massacre, Haney went through an intelligence exercise. He demonstrated the TJ network that encompassed the Fort Pierce Florida “center” attended by perpetrator Omar Mateen and his father’s membership on the board. The Fort Pierce masjid or mosque had connections to the IIE in Chicago. Which in turn, had connections to the San Bernardino Dar-al-Uloom al-Islamiya of America mosque where terrorist Syed Rizwan Farook worshipped. The Imam, Roshan Zamir Abbassi, a Pakistani, told FBI investigators that he barely knew Rizwan and his wife Tashfeen Malik. Malik had been a convert to TJ Deobandism while attending the al Hulda women’s seminary in Pakistan. The founder of the al Hulda seminary had migrated to Canada and founded an affiliate in a suburb of Toronto where three women were recruited to join ISIS in Syria. The National Security Task Force of America of the Lisa Benson Show uncovered a TJ affiliated network of Shifa health clinics in the Bible belt that spread across the US. It was directed at providing health care to low income minorities along with da’wa, the call to Islam. Haney further noted that the choice to return to the US and his Pakistani bride via Chicago and given their appearance in Sharia compliant attire, was purposeful. It was deemed a safer port of entry than Atlanta.

The FBI according to Haney is not trained in profile considerations because of the over-arching civil rights and civil liberties concerns of the Bush and the Obama Administrations. That led to the creation of the “countering violent extremism” program at the DHS with Muslim Brotherhood front group advisors. FBI training lacks the necessary nuances to detect adherents of potentially seditious Islamic doctrine under Sharia. That was compounded by the lack of domestic intelligence and communications with the DHS Customs and Border Protection agency that has vastly more enforcement authority on immigration issues. Thus, the FBI had investigated Orlando jihadist Omar Mateen three times without alerting the CBP which could have provided information on Mateen’s prior trips to Saudi Arabia.

Haney was part of a panel that included four prominent counter jihadists at a Hearing of the US Senate Judiciary Oversight Subcommittee on “Radical Islam” and terrorism. The Hearing was chaired by Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) on June 28, 2016. Others of note included Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser, Chris Gaubatz undercover investigator and former federal prosecutor and author, Andrew McCarthy. There were also representatives from ISNA, Muslim Advocates and a retired FBI agent on the panel.

The Senate Judiciary Committee reconvened on June 30th to hear testimony from DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson. He was questioned by Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX). Johnson alleged that he didn’t know of Haney and willfully dismissed the latter’s testimony without answering Cruz’s questions about Administration efforts to deny the connection between supremacist Islamic ideology and homicidal Jihad in America. In his testimony Haney recounted being forced by DHS officials to expunge more than 850 records allegedly offensive to Muslim persons of interest. Johnson denied any knowledge of this action. Cruz continued with his withering examination of the factual record of Secretary Johnson. He drew attention to the Administration’s redaction of training materials and intelligence reports “offensive to American Muslims” and liaison with both domestic and foreign Muslim Brotherhood figures advising it on “countering violent extremism.”

Watch the exchanges between Sen. Cruz and Secretary Johnson in this WND C-SPAN video clip.

To Haney’s view the 3 hour plus June 28th hearing was a watershed moment. It revealed the extent of Muslim Brotherhood influence in Congress, the Administration and in advisory positions in national law and immigration enforcement agencies. The hearing also exposed their ultimate goal of supplanting our Constitution with Sharia, Islamic law. Asked what could be done to thwart entry of such threats, Haney said, give the CBP officers in all the ports in the US three weeks training in the Islamic supremacist threat doctrine and the message would be spread globally in the Muslim ummah they could be stopped.

Against this background, we publish this interview with Philip Haney from the June 26, 2016, Lisa Benson Show. Listen to the June 26, 2016 Lisa Benson Show interview with Philip Haney.

Lisa Benson:  Welcome America. Welcome everyone. And thank you for joining us today. And to everyone who is listening from abroad tonight, Shalom to our friends in Israel. This is your host, Lisa Benson and it is my honor and my privilege to be with you today. Today we are going to spend one full hour talking to a man who has spent a career in the intelligence sector and has emerged as a whistleblower, explaining to the nation what exactly is going on. He validates all we have been broadcasting for over three years. His name is Phillip Haney. A career homeland security officer who became a whistleblower, using every means available to proclaim what he saw in his 13 years at the Department of Homeland Security. His new book is See Something; Say Nothing. We have a mutual friend, Jeffrey Epstein introducing Philip Haney. On June 28th, Mr. Haney was on a panel provided testimony before the US Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Agency Oversight. Chaired by Sen. Ted Cruz, (R-Texas).  I would like to first welcome on board Mr. Jerry Gordon, co-host and co-producer of this show. He is managing deputy editor of the NatSecDaily Brief and Senior Editor at the New English Review. Welcome back Jerry. 

Jerry Gordon:  Thanks for that introduction.


Benson:  Richard Cutting, actor, director, filmmaker and national security commentator is with us.



Richard Cutting:  Thank you for having me back.


Benson:  Thank you. I want to bring on Jeff Epstein to introduce Mr. Haney. Epstein is the founder of American Truth Forum. He is a counter jihad expert from Connecticut, and long-term friend of both Jerry Gordon and Mr. Haney. Welcome to the broadcast Jeff.

Jeff Epstein:  Thank you Lisa. It sounds like I’m in great company. 

Benson:  We’re so glad for you to be here. Would you introduce, for our national and worldwide listener audience, our guest, Mr. Haney

Epstein:  I consider it an honor and a privilege. Phil Haney and I began working together long before he had a story. We have been talking for over a decade about his story. The man was motivated by nothing but an unyielding moral compass; committed to fulfilling his sworn responsibilities, nothing more. Unfortunately under the current administration, the political atmosphere morphed to the point where domestic security concerns were subordinated to the President’s pro-Islamic agenda. Not only were Haney’s investigative efforts being blocked at the supervisory level, but the evolving Countering Violent Extremism (CVE) policies took the stage for the discrediting of those like him who were connecting the dots with respect to emerging threats. Haney found himself targeted for simply doing his job. Eventually they relieved him at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) of his responsibilities and security privileges.  Basically they cubby-holed him for the duration of his appointment. He was devastated and it was a very painful and degrading experience. One that would have broken a weaker man. You know, Lisa, as our friendship grew I realized that Haney epitomized the true meaning of the word integrity. He really was willing to sacrifice everything, including his own life to continue in the quest for accountability and justice. The man studied Arabic culture and language, while working as a scientist in the Middle East. In 2003 he was hired as a founding member of DHS. After becoming an armed custom and border protection (CPB) officer he served two tours of duty at the DHS National Targeting Center in Washington, D.C. He was quickly promoted to an advanced targeting team. For more than 40 years he has specialized in Islamic theology and the strategy and tactics of the global Islamic movement. He retired from DHS in July 2015. Since then he wrote a compelling account of government malfeasance titled, See Something; Say Nothing. Without further delay I would like to introduce my friend Phil Haney.

Benson:  What a fabulous introduction. Thank you, Jeff Epstein. Welcome, to the broadcast.  What an honor to have you, Phillip Haney. 

Haney:  Well thank you very much. I am very glad to be here.

Benson:  Mr. Haney it is such an honor to have you here today. For three, almost four years now I have been speaking about and Jerry Gordon has been writing for more than a decade on the insidious enemy that we found in every corner of the United States. I was witness to Deobandi Pakistani Islamism that I found in Charleston, South Carolina. It was not a household word when I first started talking about it to city councils and lawmakers in South Carolina. To have your testimony today is absolutely critical to building the mobilization infrastructure that is needed in America to make the changes to confront this threat. It was interesting as I read your book as my background was originally in archeology before I went into public policy and national security. In reading your book I found that you were originally trained in Entomology. Can you explain how you morphed from a man who chased bugs and became an expert on the Middle East a whistleblower defending America?

Haney:  I always say, it is not so complicated. Since I was specialist in ants, all you have to do is follow the trail and you’ll find the nest. That is counter terrorism in one nutshell. There are a couple of other aspects of a good entomologist that is helpful, in counter terrorism. One of them is careful attention to detail, and the other one is close observation of behavior. You combine those attributes: attention to detail, observation of behavior, and you’ll find the trail leading to the nest. Then just press reset button and keep doing it.

Benson:  That  sounds familiar. I kept digging for artifacts. Now I keep digging to find out where the bad guys are. You have had an interesting year, and your book is riveting. Can you just tell our audience where they can get the book, because I highly recommend this.

Haney:  It is available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble,, and the WND, World Net Daily website. We sold out the first edition in three weeks. If you go to the website you’ll see the disclaimer, “available two, three weeks.”  You can still get it on Kindle, we’re waiting for the second edition to be printed right now. 

Benson:  Given your linguistic and cultural knowledge of Islamic doctrine, you wrote a monograph in 2006, identifying the Muslim brotherhood, especially Hamas in Gaza as a threat to Israel, and the United States. What was the importance of this monograph?

Haney:  The importance of it is that it outlined in very clear detail and from the law enforcement perspective, fact-based analysis on the nature of the network that was operating right here in the United States. Keeping in mind this was two years before the federal Dallas Holy Land Foundation trial actually proved my entire premise. These organizations really were providing financial support directly to Hamas. Virtually none of those organizations have been shut down to this very day. 

Benson:  No, they have not. They are non-profit organizations aren’t they? 

Haney:  Yes

Benson:  How frustrated were you when you knew this and nobody would listen?

Haney:  It was like living in Alice in Wonderland with the door mouse packing a .45. It is surreal, but not funny. It is like living in a bad dream, because I’m standing here literally holding evidence in my hand as a sworn officer. Evidence proving that these people are a threat to us, and my own Administration ignores it. It is like shouting in a closed room with windows. I can see what is going on, but apparently nobody can see or hear me. Unfortunately, the events of the last few months and years, not only here in the United States, in San Bernardino and Orlando, for example, but also the macro events that have happened in the Middle East have basically proven my thesis. These groups are not based on the constitutional principles that we hold dear. Their goal is to implement Sharia law. That is what we need to understand, as a foundation. Everything that we see in the world today, locally, nationally, and internationally, is all derived from the same force of gravity. It’s not random or chaotic. It is all derived from the goal of the implementation of Sharia law. They have a whole spectrum of tactical tools that they can use from persuasion and dialogue, called da’wa, all the way up to what we call jihad and terrorism. 

Benson:  I’m sad to hear you say that da’wa, jihad, whether stealth or violent is seen throughout the country, so profoundly in the Bible belt. A few months ago we interviewed Pakistani-Canadian. Raheel Raza, a leader of the international Muslim Reform Movement, about Deobandism in San Bernardino. We would like to play an audio clip from that interview and ask for your comments.

[Excerpt from Raheel Raza interview:]

Raheel, there has been a lot being said about the Pakistani influence on the attackers in San Bernardino. You have done a great deal of research on Pakistani terrorist influences in the United States and Canada. I have been travelling around the country and in the Bible belt for the last three years, and uncovered a lot of Pakistani influences particularly from the Islamic Circle of North America. The Shifa clinics that they manage in cities are directed at mostly disenfranchised African American low-income communities. I know about  three girls and a woman, that ISIS recruited who attended an Al Huda school in a suburban Toronto community.  You have done some research on the Al Huda connection with the late Pakistani-born perpetrator of the San Bernardino attack on December 2, 2015. Tell us, what is Al Huda, and what are we seeing in the United States with Pakistani terrorist influences?

Raheel Raza:  Thank you so much. I refer to North America, which is Canada and the United States, and the issues and the problems that are same. I am originally from Pakistan and I had first heard a buzz about the Al Huda Institute and its founder, Ms. Farhat Hashmi when I went on a trip back to Pakistan. There were some very concerning issues there. One was about the funding and the other one was about the kind of ideology that she was teaching her students. I was shocked to see that many women who came from educated, elite backgrounds, which had been originally modern and secular in their thinking, were succumbing to her teachings. It was a very physical manifestation of that, because they would attend a few classes, and they would come out of it dressed from head to toe in the Saudi kind of black garb. Very often wearing hijabs and gloves and these are, as I said, women who have been highly educated. So you could see that she was in some way manipulating their minds. When I came back to Canada to our horror we heard that Ms. Hashmi was going to open her Al Huda institute in Canada.  

[End embedded audio]

Benson:  We share a common interest in the threat of Deobandi Pakistani Islamism. We saw it in San Bernardino. How dangerous is this? Can you explain what you witnessed as a DHS/CBP enforcement officer in airports?

Haney:  The Deobandi movement, I liken to the fingers on a hand. The very first finger on the hand of the Deobandi movement is a group called Lashkar-e-Taiba, who perpetrated the Mumbai massacres in 2008. The next finger on the hand is the Taliban. Taliban is plural for the word “student.” If I were to tell you I was a student, naturally you would ask me, “a student of what?” I would tell you, “I’m a student of the Deobandi branch of Islam.” The third finger on the hand is a group that we have talked about at some length in my book: Tablighi Jamaat, which means, “party of the promoters.” Outside the United States it’s called the “Army of Darkness,” because of their stealthy way of infiltrating the mosques and the Islamic communities around the world. They travel in groups of two, three, and four. They come to America on the Visa Waiver Program without a visa, usually on an E.U. passport. And they have letters signed by imams that we already have derogatory information on them. They first came to our attention about 2006. For the last ten years we have been focusing on Tablighi Jamaat members coming to the United States. They are salafi, meaning original form of Islam. It doesn’t actually mean radical, it means original. Sunni Muslims have a branch of Islam that is very similar or identical to the Wahhabi branch of Saudi Arabia. That is why Saudi Arabia supports the madrassa that are across the Indian subcontinent. It is not just Pakistan. It is India itself, Bangladesh, and all the way East to the Uighurs in Western China. The graduates of the madrassa go on in some cases, to become Tablighi Jamaat, and in other cases they’ll join armed forces and becomes essentially Taliban. But they are actually all identical in ideology. There is a network of the same madrassa linked to that global network operating right here in the United States.

The case that I worked on was called the Islamic Institute of Education. IIE, which is located in Chicago. IIE is the very first Deobandi madrassa in the US to graduate young men as tahfiz, meaning memorization of the Qur’an. They, along with other people that I encountered in my home port in Atlanta, memorized the Qur’an. They never go to public school. I’m talking right here in America. Then they go to madrassa in South Africa, where they teach in English, and become Alim. It takes seven years for their preparation. Alim is a program that qualifies them to be an imam, when they come back to their home country. I encountered the first generation of these U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents going back and forth between the United States and madrassa in South Africa. That is what led me to the DHS National Targeting Center on the Tablighi Jamaat case. 

That case was shut down in the middle of 2012  by the Department of State, in cooperation with the Department of Homeland Security, because of the their concerns that we were violating their civil rights, their civil liberties. Because at the time, actually until today, they are still not a designated terrorist organization. You can imagine my horror when about three years later, after they shut the case down, we had first the San Bernardino shootings, and the Dar-Al-Uloom mosque in San Bernardino was part of that network. Then we come to the Orlando shootings, because the Fort Pierce, Florida mosque or masjid which is called the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce. That is a giveaway that they are from the Indian subcontinent when they use the word “center.” I tied both the San Bernardino mosque and the Fort Pierce mosque to cases the government shut down about three years ago.

Gordon:  Mr. Haney, the Bush and Obama administrations established outreach to the very same Muslim brotherhood affiliates that you have identified back in 2006. They also essentially carried forward on redacting training materials and creating this fiction called “countering violent extremism.” How did that complicate your intelligence and National Targeting Center assignments and relationship with the DHS hierarchy?

Haney:  It complicated it immensely because I had already targeted the individuals and the organizations in the Muslim brotherhood network beginning in 2006 and 2007. Then once the Administration began to bring them into positions of authority to help create and enforce, if you will, counter terrorism policy in both the domestic and the foreign policy arenas, then came the federal Dallas Holy Land Foundation Trial in 2008. That was when the Justice Department showed in federal court irrefutable ties of these same groups to Hamas. Less than one year after that, the Administration ordered me to remove all the linking information of records that I had put into the TECS system, about 850 records. The vast majority of them were related to individuals and organizations within the Muslim Brotherhood network in the United States. Now the administration is bringing them into positions of authority. It has been implausible that they could ever say that after November 2008 and the Holy Land Trial convictions that they didn’t know, as the Department of Justice proved that they were linked to Hamas. Nonetheless they ordered me to scrub all the linking information out of these records that I had put in the TECS. That is when the really traumatic, both personally and career wise, sequence of events began to take place. That was in the fall of 2009. It took me four months just to modify all of those records. During that time when I was literally in my office, in my cubicle, doing the work, the Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab underwear bombing took place. Congress held hearings on the case. The two concerns that they expressed during the hearings were radicalization of U.S. citizens and/or lawful permanent residents, and failure to connect the dots. Meanwhile the President went on TV and pointed his finger at the intelligence community and said plainly that it was our fault because we didn’t connect the dots. While I was literally sitting there at my office space, removing the dots out of the system. That was one of the traumatizing or surreal moments that I referred to earlier, that was like, Alice in Wonderland, where somebody has a real gun. Because now we’re talking about the lives of people. Because that was a very difficult point to go through during this long ordeal. It still lasted another seven years after that. 

Benson:  Mr. Haney, you are saying that this started in the Bush Administration, are you not?

Haney:  The first time I was investigated it was in 2006 when I wrote an article for FrontPageMagazine titled “Green Tide Rising.” I took a class with CIA contractors who call it DDER, deception-detection–elicitation-response. Simple way of putting it, is to tell whether or not people are lying when you are interviewing them. I thought they would be interested in that article, “Green Tide Rising,” on Hamas. However, I was mistaken. Because DHS accused me of accessing classified information, and said that I couldn’t have written the article without unethically using this information. So they investigated me. And after 11 months I was exonerated. I wondered why would a DHS CBP officer who simply wrote an article about the globally designated terrorist organization called Hamas be investigated. As you see now, the over-arching efforts to separate Islam from anything related to terrorist activity actually started way back then. Some of these were harbingers, apparently so concerning that there would be some sort of a connection between terrorist attacks and groups like Hamas and mainstream Islam in the United States that they started going after subject matter experts like myself.

Benson:  Subject matter experts.

Haney:  Yes.

Benson:  This started under the Bush administration and they were questioning what you were doing. At that time you were also witness to and questioning why The Council of American Islamic Relations were having private tours at Atlanta and Chicago airports. Is that correct?

Haney:  It is correct. They had a VIP tour at the Chicago airport and my Port Director at the time asked me to help her arrange a similar kind of liaison outreach meeting with the CAIR chair in the local Atlanta area. I told her that CAIR was the front group for Hamas. Keeping in mind this was in 2006, before the Holy Land Foundation trial was even completed. Instead of looking at my assertions they black-balled me. They literally would not allow me in the same room as management, because they said I was implying that the person who directed the tour in Chicago, who happened to be our DFO, Deputy Field Officer, that I was accusing him of being friends with terrorists. However, that is not what I said. All I said was that front groups for Muslim brotherhood network in United States were linked to the designated terrorist group, Hamas. 

Cutting:  Mr. Haney, as Frank Sinatra would say, I read your book, and 2009 was a very big year. I draw your attention to 2009 when the president spoke at Al-Azhar University in Cairo, and basically announced the beginning of Countering Violent Extremism, CVE. Our job on this program is to explain to regular citizens what buzz words like “Countering Violent Extremism” mean that become policy, which by 2010 emerged as the DHS Civil Rights, Civil Liberties Working Group that included people that shouldn’t have been allowed in the building. Can you explode that myth of people countering violent extremism security policy?

Haney:  To start with, violent extremism is a tactic. I call it chasing dragonflies. Those of us who grew up around water where dragonflies live tried to catch them, at least once in our life.  We found out that dragonflies are very hard to catch. What we have been doing in our foreign and domestic terrorism policies is chasing dragonflies around a pond. However, there’ is a thing about the behavior of dragonflies, which if you know it, makes it a lot easier to catch them.  They will always return to the same place. They fly around for a while and then they come back and rest. If you simply observe the way they behave, as I mentioned to you earlier, entomology and behavior, you’ll find where they land. and then you can catch them a lot easier. That illustrates the difference between strategy and tactics. Jihad is a tactic; terrorism is a tactic. Violent extremism is a tactic. They change like a kaleidoscope. Any in the audience who shoot in your job as an armed officer or military, know that if you aim at the target and it moves, you have to move with it. Otherwise you’re shooting at nothing. If you know where that moving target will end up, what you do is you aim at the place where it ends up. That is strategy versus tactics. Our whole counterterrorism policy is based on tactics, not strategy. The strategy of the global Islamic movement is to implement Sharia law. We need to take the remote out of the hands of people who have been controlling the narrative, and change channels. We need to start discussing the strategy of the global Islamic movement, which is very simple. Based on Qur’an Surah Al-Baqarah [2:191-193].  That the deen, meaning the Islamic religion and Sharia law, will prevail on the earth. That is the gravitational force, just like the planets or the solar system that motivates everything in the Islamic world, including da’wa, dar al hijrah or immigration, and jihad. It all has one purpose: to implement Sharia law. United States is no exception. What we need to do is change the discussion and face it courageously and honestly. The U.S. Constitution versus Sharia law. We have to come to terms with that, and decide which kind of country we want. A constitution based republic? Or one that gives face to a law that claims, in its own definition, that it is superior to every other form of government on the face of the planet.

Gordon:  Mr. Haney, I want to talk about this peculiar situation regarding a Saudi national who was identified as a person of interest in the wake of the Tsarnaev brothers’ Boston marathon bombing.  Who is he, and why was there a grand jury investigation brought against you, and how did you prevail? 

Haney:  The person you are referring to is a Saudi national and student, named Abdul Rahman Ali Alharbi. He was at the scene of the Boston marathon bombing, even though he was violating the terms of his student visa. He was supposed to be at another school, several states away. I still don’t know, to this day, why he was in Boston. Nonetheless, he was there. He was injured. He was taken to the hospital, and the FBI went to his apartment and searched it. From about 9:00 at night until about midnight.  While they were collecting their information they notified the DHS National Targeting Center, where I used to work, and they created what is called a Targeting Framework Event. Shorthand, for an event. It is like a fill in the blank template. They basically concluded that they had enough derogatory information on him to have him deported on terrorism charges. On Thursday, April 18, 2013, then DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano testified before the House Homeland Security Committee, whose Chairman is Rep. Jeff Duncan of South Carolina. He asked her, “are you sure it’s a good idea to deport somebody before we know all the facts?” You have to keep in mind at that point that we still didn’t know about the Tsarnaev brothers. The Saudi student was the only individual who had any connection to the bombing that we knew of, at that moment, on Thursday, April 18, 2013 at 2:30 in the afternoon. Janet Napolitano told Jeff Duncan that “your question is so full of misapprehension and misinformation that it’s not even worthy of an answer.” She said there never was a person who was a subject of interest, a person of interest, who was going to be deported on 3-B charges. The problem was I was literally standing there, looking at the evidence. Because that was my job at the NTC, to create events. I knew right where to go to get it. I was looking at the information in my hands, when she testified before Congress. That is what I call the third bomb of the Boston marathon bombing. She set off invisible shrapnel. She damaged a lot of peoples’ careers in the process by misinforming Congress. Because she maintained that there was no such person. But there was. As a matter of fact, I don’t know the full status of the case, but Alharbi is suing Glenn Beck, for slander and defamation. This is supposedly a person that didn’t even exist. So there are a lot of unresolved questions about this Saudi student who was on the scene at the Boston bombing.

Benson:  Oh wow.

Haney:  I don’t know his role in it, but I do know that there are some very, very deep holes in this case, that need to be answered. Because Secretary of Homeland Security, Janet Napolitano, my former boss, was not honest with the committee, a lot of people were hurt in the process, who were simply just doing their job, including myself.

Benson:  Janet Napolitano was the governor of Arizona. Then she went on to head Homeland Security in Washington. To the best of my knowledge she dismantled the Phoenix, Arizona operation of Homeland Security and placed them on different jobs. I think nine of them were reassigned. But we can talk about that another time. The Muslim brotherhood is the mother ship of this stealth jihad that we’re seeing in the United States in every community we go into. It is the primary driver of this jihad or Sharia conquest in the United Sates. We have an imam, Mohammed Magid, who is a very close adviser to the President of the United States. Reform Muslim leaders like Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser have never been invited to the White House or a briefing at DHS. Why do you think there is such an embrace of the Muslim Brotherhood?

Haney:  That is a good question. I think the answer will come, I hope, more visible in the days, weeks, and months ahead. It is such an abstract concept of why people who have sworn to uphold the Constitution, and to protect citizens from threat, both foreign and domestic, would do the exact opposite. I can’t really give you factual, rational answer. Other than the fact that their world views overlap and the world view of the Muslim Brotherhood somehow coincides or overlaps significantly enough with the world view of the Obama administration that they find themselves on common ground. They actually think that they’re doing each other a service. We have seen that in the Middle East with the overthrow of the elected Muslim Brotherhood Morsi government in Egypt, and the overt attempt to implement Sharia law under their Constitution. We have seen in Syria the Obama Administration’s covert support of the Al Qaeda Al Nusra front; same thing in Algeria and Libya. These are not our partners in peace. The same is true in the domestic arena as well, with CAIR and other Muslim Brotherhood fronts. Whatever they say, whatever they do, however they present themselves as civil rights advocacy groups, they all have the same goal in mind. Ultimately, it is to implement Sharia law. I would advise your listeners to look up an organization called AMJA, Assembly of Muslim Jurists of America. It is the most influential of all the Muslim Brotherhood organizations in existence today. It is one that virtually no one has heard about. They are the son of Sharia in the United States. They issue fatwas on whether Muslim Americans should work for the government, law-enforcement, or the military. 

They post them on their website in English. The name of the group in Arabic is Majama Fuqaha Al-Sharia B-Amrikia. It is a lot different than Assembly of Muslim jurists in America. It means “the group of lawyers promoting Sharia law in America.” Right on their website.

Benson:  Richard Cutting, final question from you.

Cutting:  Mr. Haney, how long will it take to correct what is wrong with our foreign policy with regard to stopping the advancement of Sharia? You note in your book that several Congressmen in June  2012 sent a letter to the Department of Homeland Security asking about infiltration. How long will it take to change this policy?

Haney:  If we start at the ground level at the Port and go back and train CBP officers, who actually have more authority than CIA and the FBI combined at the border point, you would be surprised how fast it’ll turn around. Especially when the word gets out internationally. I know this from my own experience interviewing these Islamist suspects. The word gets out real quick. I watched them divert to other Ports. They wouldn’t come and talk to me. If we had a solid front across the United States like that you would see it change around a lot faster than you can probably imagine.

Benson:  Jerry, please summarize this discussion with Mr. Haney.

Gordon:  What you’ve heard from Haney is remarkable. It tells you why the counter-terrorism program is in tatters. It is why in the Orlando massacre, you couldn’t connect the dots there, and you couldn’t connect the dots in San Bernardino. It is all because of seeming political correctness on the part of two administrations. We saw it in both the Bush era, and now certainly under Obama. Why we are tied to a group promoting Sharia law, to take over this country, is abominable.

Benson:  Mr. Haney, let us have you back. Thank you so much for being with us today. God bless America. Watch over Mr. Haney and the brave people who like him give of themselves to protect the American homeland.




Also see Jerry Gordon’s collection of interviews, The West Speaks.


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