by Jerry Gordon with George Abraham (December 2010)
On Election Day, November 2nd, Senior Editor Jerry Gordon and New York-based Talk Radio host George Abraham on Vicksburg talk radio station WVBG 1450 AM held a wide ranging discussion on several issues that the new 112th Congress might face in the wake of what some political observers called the Tsunami 2010 MidTerm election. The result of that electoral tsunami gave control of the US House of Representatives to the Republicans and diminished Democratic control of the US Senate. Among the issues discussed by Gordon and Abraham were questions about how to deal with the threat of Sharia law in the US, the necessity to spur energy independence, purging our intelligence and national security agencies, the reform of humanitarian refugee immigration as a deterrent against Islamization in America and the rise of home grown terrorism among émigré Muslims. Abraham, a Vicksburg native, is a New York business consultant.
What follows is an excerpt of the discussion between Gordon and Abraham.
George Abraham: Good morning everybody from Vicksburg. This is Election Day so I want everybody to exercise his or her right to vote. It is one of the great things about our democracy. I have been introduced to Jerry Gordon by Diane Lefkowitz who used to live in Vicksburg. She led me to Jerry Gordon who is a Senior Editor of the New English Review. He graduated from Boston University and Columbia University. He also is a Senior Vice President of the World Encounter Institute. Jerry why don't you fill us in on your background and current issues.
Jerry Gordon: I am a former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer who served during the Vietnam era. Subsequent to that I've had a number of encounters with other groups in the Middle East and elsewhere who are allies of the United States. I am pleased to be on this program this morning and speak about post-elections issues to your listeners in the South. This was a stellar red letter election day for America. It was political tsunami. At the core is the public's complete dissatisfaction with the two years of President Obama's Administration and his acolytes in the US Congress, most especially in the House and to a certain degree in the U.S. Senate. I refer to a pre-election poll completed by John McLaughlin & Associates that clearly indicated the Republicans could gain in excess of 50 seats in the House giving them control. That would represent pushback against the agenda of the Obama Administration. If our Founding Fathers had chosen to give us a parliamentary system we could have had a snap election in 90 days and a new Administration. We now essentially have a lame duck Administration.
The McLaughlin & Associates poll also had further findings about issues that we will be discussing. The public was concerned about several issues: terrorism, national security and treatment by the Obama Administration of valued allies in this world who are in the fight against worldwide Islamic terrorism. I make no bones about it; we are dealing with Islamic terrorism not some “man made disaster.” Your listener audience was acutely aware of the recent news reports about the letter bomb episode that originated from Yemen. What was interesting was our government at the highest levels gave the impression that we were right on top of this, that international air transportation aviation was secure. And who was the ally that the Obama administration singled out for commendation? It was Saudi Arabia who allegedly gave us information from a tipee who was a GITMO detainee, a Yemeni. The tipee allegedly went through a Saudi deprogramming effort and came out as a supposedly trustworthy person. That press offensive by the Obama Administration was a fraud on its face. The Saudi program has been criticized both internally in Saudi Arabia and externally by experts in the counter terrorism field. Who in the U.S. Administration basically conveyed this misinformation? We have to believe that individual may be the White House counter terrorism aide to President Obama John Brennan. He is known to be a pro-Arabist and touts his education and connections in the Arab Muslim world during his career at the CIA.
Abraham: We are extremely fortunate to have Mr. Jerry Gordon on today. This is News Talk 1490 WVBG in Vicksburg, Mississippi. You can reach us on the internet at News Talk 1490.net. I've had a chance to screen Gordon and if you Google him and the New English Review, you will find this on-line publication is contributed to by over 40 authors, including Gordon.
Gordon: It's not only 40 people but it's an unusual journal. It's Anglo American. It cuts across the Atlantic. The New English Review (NER) receives in excess of 3-1/2 million to 4 million views every month from articles published on-line. The NER has attracted an international audience. There are common concerns about the topics we are addressing all across the globe.
Abraham: I had a chance to put your articles up on our Facebook page. I asked my readers to send me questions. One of the questions was, “What's the solution to sending billions and billions of dollars to Saudi Arabia and even Iran to fund the process of when we procure their oil that they use that money against us to destroy our culture?” What could be done about that?
Gordon: That is an excellent question. The U.S. has huge energy reserves whether in the Gulf, notwithstanding the problems we've had with the BP oil spill, billions in the form of oil shale deposits in the Rockies and even in North Dakota. The problem that we have in the United States can be traced to a Hollywood actress, Jane Fonda, remember her? “Calamity Jane” as we used to call her during the Vietnam war era. She made a movie called, The China Syndrome. Michael Douglas and the late Jack Lemmon were in it. It was about a meltdown of a nuclear reactor. That movie was released at the same time that the Three Mile Island incident n Pennsylvania occurred in 1979. When that coincidence occurred many went ballistic about a nuclear implosion and the likelihood of radiation sickness. The only place where that has happened was in the Ukraine with Chernobyl in 1986 because of defective Russian nuclear technology. What the China Syndrome and Three mile Island did was it put on hold nuclear power plant production. Now we know after nearly 32 plus years that Three Mile Island was nowhere near a threat. The amount of radiation that was expended was less than that from an x-ray. The question is why did we stop development of nuclear power in the United States when Japan and France have fully somewhere in the order of 3/4's to 80% of their power production through nuclear power?
Gordon: That is one area of energy development where we could really put a crimp in the recycling of billions of petro dollars that go to the Saudis. Now let me apprise your audience about what the Saudi's have done with those trillions of dollars that we've sent them by virtue of purchasing their energy. Your listeners should realize that 1979 was a seminal year. We just talked about the China Syndrome.
Abraham: Yes we did and I don't know if that won an award but it was very well received by critics.
Gordon: It was. That's correct. Well, one could be a critical success but actually provide misinformation. This is a good example of that. In 1979 we had the overthrow of the Shah's government.
Abraham: Yes we did, under Jimmy Carter.
Gordon: We also had another problem the seizure of the Grand Mosque in Mecca by armed members of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood is no friend of ours and it's behind most of the mosque developments here in the United States. So what happened was there was a 30 day siege in Mecca, the Saudis who were totally incompetent reached out to the French who provided special forces to finally end this siege. What the Saudis did in the wake of that event was make a Faustian bargain. They began to spread billions and billions of petro dollars around the world to promote their fundamentalist anti-democratic doctrine known as Wahhabism. Take a look at Afghanistan and Pakistan. All of those Madrassas brainwashing Muslim children who morphed into the Taliban were the result of your dollars recycled by the Saudis. Moreover, three quarters of the mosques built currently in the U.S. are financed through the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT) funded by Saudi and Emirate money. Realize that those mosques are effectively places in which individuals may be indoctrinated in this extremist version of Islam. It is definitely not moderation.
Abraham: Again, indoctrinated starting from the age of 2 or 3 aren't they?
Gordon: Yes they do.
Gordon: And it's horrible.
Abraham: Our Constitution clearly talks about the separation of church and state and we also give tax breaks to religious institutions. The question is does the Muslim faith preach religion or are they preaching other things like seditious overthrow of our country. That being the case, why would you give them a tax deduction? I mean I'm not taking a position here but if that's what's going on in terms of what they are teaching, that is not a religion at all. That is overthrow of the West.
Gordon: You are correct in that observation. It amounts to the overthrow of our foundational documents and our Judeo Christian values. If essentially you pierce through this thin veneer of religious practices what you are looking at is overthrow doctrine. So why should our government exempt these folks from taxation? Muslim mosques are treated just like a church, synagogue, Buddhist or Hindu temple here in the United States.
Abraham: It seems to me that under the famous Oliver Wendell Holmes Supreme Court ruling on free speech that this doctrine is clear and present danger. If any group is constantly preaching overthrowing the United States then it is sedition.
Gordon: It was the Holmes doctrine, “shouting fire in a crowded theatre” that put limits on the First Amendment. This country may have an opportunity as a result of this midterm election to consider anti-Sharia legislation at the national level. There are proposals out there at the State level. One of them was passed in Oklahoma. Two others have also been passed in other states that would outlaw Sharia. One of the prospects following this election is that we might seriously begin a national debate and do something about putting a stop to the adoption of Sharia here in the United States. That would be push back and would send a clear and present message not only to hundreds of millions of Americans but to the billion and a half estimated Muslim population around the world.
Abraham: And so, how would that be enforced? Would that require we monitor what's going on in mosques in the United States? How would that be investigated and enforced?
Gordon: Efforts in how to accomplish have been made over the course of the last few years by the Mapping Sharia Project of the Center for Security Policy.
Abraham: How did they do it? Did then send people to investigate or did they infiltrate and even become part of the group and then let authorities know Sharia compliance?
Gordon: The problem is that our authorities are not willing to deal this issue. It has been left to private NGO's to finance and conduct this activity. I have spoken with those who have infiltrated mosques to learn how Sharia compliant they really are. The best example of that was one a video in our September edition on “Coming to a Mosque near you: Pimping for Terrorism”. That video showed former UK Parliamentarian George Galloway with Muslim Brotherhood leaders raising $55,000 in a mosque in Orlando to fund a foreign designated terrorist group called Hamas in Gaza. We have had liberal Democratic and conservative Republicans raise this issue with the Department of Justice and with the IRS as a violation of U.S. law. We have gotten nowhere during the course of the past year. What kind of a message does that send your listener audience? One of outrage? It should.
Abraham: Here in New York you have many delis, car services and retail businesses that are run by Muslim people who follow the Qur'an. They are extremely hospitable seem to go the extra mile. That may just be the basic way that the Middle East teaches hospitality separate from religion. Are you suggesting that we focus on Sharia and the mosque not on individual people who have businesses all over the country who are Muslim? How do you make that distinction?
Gordon: You made the distinction. We're not against the humanity of Muslims. That's not our way here under our Constitution in the United States. What we are against is a doctrine that tries to say that they reject us. They reject our values. They won't integrate with us and basically they also use their charitable donations against us. One of the purposes of Muslim charity is essentially supporting Jihad. That's how we caught these people down in Orlando, Florida in a mosque raising money for Hamas.
Abraham: What are some of the options that Congress has? How can you expunge the political doctrine from Islam and make them focus on religion?
Gordon: The unfortunate part is there isn't much left after you expunge the “political doctrine” that is antithetical to the U.S. Constitution. You could have the residue that looks like spiritual doctrine that we fundamentally view as typical for most of the world's faiths.
Abraham: I don't sense that with Islam.
Gordon: I think that is an issue for the Muslims to address if they are told that they cannot preach doctrine that is antithetical to our Constitution. That's about as plain and simple as I can make it. The first step that Congress has to take up is perhaps a sensible bill about how to deal with Sharia, which is the complete cradle to grave doctrine that we are talking about that, is at the core of Islam. You have to expunge Sharia from Islam in order to deracinate it so that people can say, “ok what is left are the religious spiritual practices” – that's fine. The other thing that Congress has to address is sensible support for energy independence for this country to lessen the exposure to offshore sources primarily in the Middle East. Don't forget in our Western Hemisphere we have some pretty bad actors, one of those is Hugo Chavez of Venezuela whose gas stations are all over the United States. They are called CITGO. But we need to address the question of how we reduce our dependency on Middle Eastern oil that provides the petro dollars that fuels Jihadist doctrine that is a threat to life and limb here in the United States and in many locations around the world. What we also have to do is purge those elements in our counter terrorism agencies, national law enforcement groups, the FBI in particular and even the CIA, that have gone along with counter terrorism White House Chief John Brennan and even Mr. Mueller who has been the long term head of the FBI. Having had the experience of talking with supervisory agents in the FBI who are training agents in this field, they feel that what is going on is appalling. We had Muslim translators celebrating 9/11 inside the FBI Language Laboratory.
Abraham: That played on every TV channel in New York.
Gordon: That's correct. Remember that?
Abraham: Oh, I'll never forget it. I was appalled.
Gordon: That's correct. We have to undertake a purge of those national security agencies that have been set up to defend us. Steve Coughlin, who was the lone Pentagon expert in the on the law of Jihad, during the Bush administration, was picked upon by a member of the Muslim Brotherhood who was then Muslim outreach aide to the Deputy under Secretary of Defense. Should that have occurred? No. Why did the Joint Chiefs of Staff send down Coughlin, a Reserve Army Major and lawyer because they didn't want him around as an embarrassment. Note the current situation in the Middle East with Yemen with these letter bombs containing a highly explosive material, PETN that the underwear bomber had in small but still dangerous quantities. The fact that we have tolerated appeasement of Muslim countries that have not addressed the terrorists in their midst who believe this Jihad doctrine. You recall our discussion earlier about the alleged Saudi terrorist deprogramming activity? We have embargo countries like Yemen, Saudi Arabia and maybe even Dubai where there is a lot of financial interest these days particularly in the field of Sharia finance.
Abraham: I've had a person on my program not too long ago. I've been really lucky to get people like yourself and other people, who works for a certain bank that I won't mention. He told me that all of the money in the world is shifting rapidly towards two parts of the globe. One is China, especially Hong Kong, and the other is Dubai.
Abraham: Dubai is getting filthy liquid because of the oil.
Gordon: It is only because of the oil in the Middle east. Western banks, the big investment banks in both London and New York, are all a twitter about doing Sharia compliant financing work for these groups out of Dubai. You mentioned Bloomberg News. About a year ago, Bloomberg News, still 85% owned by the Mayor of New York by the way, basically established a hub in Dubai to take advantage of this new push for Sharia finance. Now there is an interesting person in New York. His name is David Yerushalmi, an attorney. He has started a lawsuit against U.S. Government use of TARP money for the AIG Insurance Company bailout. He filed a legal action in 2008 in the Eastern Michigan District Court. It has now gone through nearly two years of motions. It's going forward. Why is he doing this? Because AIG has a Sharia compliant insurance program that it sells all over the world the indirectly funds Jihad. Is that something that we should be using U.S. Government funds for? The answer is no. We should not and that is the reason why Mr. Yerushalmi and his associate counsel at the Thomas Moore Law Center in Ann Arbor, Michigan brought this legal action against the government for using our taxpayer money to basically engage in Sharia compliant finance. It's illegal. So give credit to both Mr. Yerushalmi and the co-counsel from the Thomas Moore Law Center for lodging this action. It is not an isolated case. There are other actions that have been conducted here in the United States. We have banks in Michigan, banks in Illinois, banks in Virginia that have basically established these Sharia compliant mortgage financing programs to appeal to Muslim populations here in the United States. That has got to stop.
Abraham: What happens when you come into conflict with American corporations who have a lot to gain financially from backing Sharia initiatives and taking money from Saudi Arabia? Won't you have lobbyists coming forward saying this is part of Islam and they are bringing a lot of money to the USA? They are investing in our banks. How do you handle that?
Gordon: It hasn't really been adequately prosecuted by either the Bush or the Obama Administration because the government doesn't want to deal with that issue. It wants to basically further the marketplace doctrine and the problem is the following. You need to reflect in the marketplace internationally, what the costs are of doing business? Under Sharia you are not supposed to charge interest. Well, that's a hoax because what they do is to capitalize the interest and put it into the loan and you pay back the loan.
Abraham: Still that it looks like it's no interest.
Gordon: Well that's correct.
Abraham: In their mind it's moral because it's capitalized.
Gordon: That's correct. The other thing that you should do is enforce existing banking laws that say you can't discriminate among different class of borrowers.
Gordon: So let's say you are a money center bank institution. You set up a Sharia compliant financing program to deal with Muslim clients in the United States and you also have your regular clients. Well that tells me that you may be in violation of existing, fair lending laws in the United States. So we need to get that prosecuted and enforced. The problem is if you don't have the resolve to use it and that certainly doesn't exist in this Administration, then you won't get adequate enforcement. What is the war cry? We have existing laws on the books. Why don't we enforce them?
Abraham: I mean if they are on the books it couldn't be easier.
Gordon: The other aspect of this is investment bankers operate on the greed principal. They take fees for doing their advisory work, for underwritings, for placements, for mergers and acquisitions. So they are hungry lions looking for the next goldmine to prospect for these huge fees. The question is what do you do about that? Well, I don't know if you can use the existing financial overhaul laws that have been adopted. I doubt it. I think they basically are dangerous. You have to put into place a market mechanism that puts financings on a fair disclosure basis. They have to be transparent. Sharia is not transparent. You have to make Sharia transparent and the only way of doing that is charging interest which is the cost of money. It has to be fully disclosed instead of playing games and put all the transactions we are talking about on a level playing field the usual and customary business practices. That means we don't have to reinvent the wheel in terms of regulation. It's already out there. We just need to enforce it. We need Congress to send a message to our Treasury and to our Attorney General to get out there and enforce these existing laws.
Abraham: Shouldn't we look at this thing not from the standpoint of Sharia law but from the standpoint of what groups who are teaching the overthrow of the United States government? Wouldn't your chances be better for legislation than trying to focus on one particular group?
Gordon: Yes, you could do that generically if you wanted to design that legislation so that it would basically say that if you are engaged in criminal activities that is prosecutable. There are individuals who consider Sharia as basically the moral equivalent of a religious veneer on top of criminal acts. That observation has made by leading experts in the forefront of developing legislation and litigation against Sharia here in the United States.
Abraham: You know there are those who say, “well why shouldn't we overthrow the US government that is not responsive to the people,” but what they don't get is we can simply vote them out of office.
Gordon: I think that's correct. I can take you back to an era when you and I were junior high or middle school students when we were required to take a Civics class. How many public and private schools are teaching Civics these days?
Abraham: Not many that we know of and that is pathetic.
Gordon: Right. It used to be part of the mandated curriculum for virtually every local school district in the United States. We have got to go back to an historical position where our educational system taught youngsters about Civic responsibilities in the United States. To instruct them about our national laws, what it means to uphold our laws and mechanisms we have to make changes if we disagree. It might be the beginnings of push back against extremism here in the United States. We've got extremists on the right, we've got extremists on the left and quite frankly if you take a look at the polling and political dynamics most of the people are in the center. They are wondering why those extremes are being tolerated. Today we may have the good fortune of reasonable people being elected to basically engage in redressing some of the extremes that we've seen during the last several years.
Abraham: Well I could tell you that I had to take a whole year of Civics and that you did too.
Abraham: Turning back to our earlier discussion. Saudi Arabia and some of the Emirates have the oil and our petrodollars.
Gordon: Dubai on the other hand is a financial center. Our country has made a couple of strategic errors over the last several decades. It has to do with diversity. It is nice to tell people that other people have to be cared for in this world, have to be considered and we must also be multi-culturally-correct. The problem is recognition of diversity and multi-culturalism in these United States has also produced what I call moral relativism. We need to center ourselves on what our fundamental Judeo Christian values are as embedded in our foundational documents. We need to teach them to our children regardless of where they came from, rather than this kind of teaching diversity and tolerance when fundamentally some of those people come from origins that are not tolerant of us. We are in effect tolerating people who are intolerant of us. They should never have been admitted into these United States but because we have been so generous with our absorption policies over the course of the last several decades, this is unfortunately part of the problem that we are facing.
Abraham: Are we gaining better understanding of whom we accept as immigrants?
Gordon: No, and let me be specific about it. It will be a shock to your listeners to find out that it is the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees who defines who is as a legal refugee. I'm not talking about illegal aliens who come across our borders. I'm talking about refugees and assylees in this country. Some refugees are legitimate. Some assylees are legitimate. However, let's face the facts of what has happened over the last couple of decades since the Refugee Act of 1980 was passed. A few weeks ago, the President of the United States sent what is called the Annual Declaration of who gets admitted as a refugee in the United States. In rough orders of magnitude there are an estimated authorized 80,000 refugees, another 25 to 30,000 so called assylees and there is more. There is something called The Family Reunification Program which has been shown to be fraudulent and has been shut down for two years. It is about to reopen up again. Now who are the problems? The problems are ?migr? refugees from the Middle East, from Africa and from South Asia. Let me be specific about one group of these refugees. They are a clear and present danger here in the United States. These are the Somali Muslims. Your readers may remember in 1993 we had a horrible event in Mogadishu, Somalia. It was called Black Hawk Down. We lost 18 soldiers and helicopter pilots killed, 58 injured all because we were engaged in a humanitarian rescue program and were caught in the crossfire with Somali warlords.
Take a look at cities like Minneapolis, Columbus, Ohio, Seattle, Washington, and Nashville, Tennessee and there are tens of thousands running into the hundreds of thousands of Somali Muslims in those areas. Something like 70,000 in Minneapolis, and 50,000 in Columbus, Ohio alone. In the case of Nashville probably something in the order of 10 to 15,000. These are folks who are not assimiliable here in the United States. They don't meet our basic educational or public health standards. They are on welfare. They get cradle to grave treatment. We have humanitarian NGO's like the Lutheran World Relief or Catholic Charities or even the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society who are under contract to various state components to assist in the absorption of these people. These people present great difficulties in being integrated in the United States. They've also been hired by major meat and poultry packers. The Tyson Foods Organization or the Swift and Company which is owned by a Brazilian group have hired thousands of Somali Muslim workers in places like Colorado, Nebraska and Tennessee to replace illegal alien workers from Mexico, Central and Latin America. Tests of these Somali Muslim workers found them to be carriers of tuberculosis of the most virile kind. This has occurred because they have not been adequately screened in refugee camps in Kenya and other African countries. They don't even speak our language fluently enough to be adequately employed and unfortunately they have been engaged in criminal enterprises in a number of major cities and locations where they are located. Unfortunately, as we found out recently they have even engaged in honor killings of their own relatives as occurred in Fort Morgan, Colorado. That is what we have produced by being generous and by having the United Nations control our refugee immigration program here in the United States.
Abraham: I didn't realize how much influence the United Nations has on allowing refugees to come over to the United States creating public health and food handling problems.
Gordon: Right. That is correct.
Abraham: You let somebody in the United States that has tuberculosis without treatment. How does that happen?
Gordon: It happened at a Tyson's meat packing plant in Emporia, Kansas. Emporia is located in Southeastern Kansas a few hours away from Kansas City. It has a state college located in the community. For a period of time there were several hundred Somalis working in a meat packing plant owned by Tyson's foods. The Kansas Health Department did a screening of them and found a number of cases of viral TB amongst this population of workers hired by Tysons and it lead to a serious problem. Tyson's reacted by shutting down some of the meat slaughtering and packing activities there and these people went elsewhere. They probably went to Tennessee or Nebraska. That is the problem you get into when you open a Pandora's Box as we have since 1980. Our government whether it's Bush or Obama, has been letting in 80,000 refugees annually to the US. Fully two fifths of them have come from Muslim countries. Your family originated from the Middle East? They were Orthodox Christians from Lebanon. Why isn't our government helping embattled Christian minorities in the Middle East such as Assyrian Chaldeans in Iraq, Maronite and Orthodox Christians in Lebanon, and the sizeable Coptic Christian community in Egypt to come here? Or how about the South Sudanese Christians who have been slaughtered in the millions in Africa. All of these people as candidates would be pleased to come here as refugees because they can adapt our values. Yet we turn them away while accepting Muslims who don't want to integrate in our society and Judeo Christian culture.
Abraham: My grandparents used to tell me that's the best thing they ever did in the late 1800's was to come to the U.S.A. They love the U.S.A. They worked hard and built businesses and I would like to think that they were major contributors to the community in which they lived in trying to help. They were very philanthropic. Certainly you have your exceptions but you know I was always taught as a child that when I was born in America that I was an American first. I wasn't Lebanese first. I wasn't a Lebanese American I was an American.
Gordon: That is also how I was raised as the grandchild of Eastern European Jews who immigrated to the United States for good reason. We have five generations of descendents in the United States. Among my extended family are accomplished individuals and respected citizens. Among them are contributors in business, the professions, science, law, medicine, education, and the arts living all across these United States. I am sure the same thing happened following the arrival of your grandparents and extended families that came to the American South from Ottoman occupied Mount Lebanon. So, why does our country bend over backwards to let in people who don't respect our values while we are paying them, cradle to grave welfare and medical support benefits?
Abraham: Basically when one begins to solve a problem one goes to the core of, what's the most difficult thing to do first? In negotiations you deal with the easiest first. It seems to me we know that there are groups that are trying to undermine the success of the American culture and democracy. What needs to be dealt with immediately?
Gordon: We have to identify what are our economic, political and national security interests in the world and prioritize them. If there are inimical interests in our midst domestically that threaten achievement of those interests, we have to change the rules of the game. We can no longer play around with the idea that we can rely exclusively and materially on Middle Eastern oil. All of those recycled revenues are used to finance terror against us. They are a threat to our values. We need to become more independent of those sources. There are other sources in the world that we can rely on whether it's Canada, Brazil, and right here in the U.S. with billions of proven reserves of energy. We need to pursue aggressively nuclear power development in this country to get over that hump. We need to reduce the nearly two fifths of our energy demand that we purchase from the Middle East.
Abraham: How long do you think that would take? Five, ten years?
Gordon: I think it is a two decade program. We immediately have to provide loan guarantee programs for nuclear power development in this country, and short circuit where it's appropriate some of the licensing and clearance processes. We need to adopt foreign technology, French technology as it turns out, for recycling those spent rods that could be used against us by terrorists.
Gordon: You can do that with French technology that has worked for nearly a decade or more. Here in the United States you can close down facilities like the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository out in Nevada. You don't need to do that if you adopt this technology and it also makes things more secure for the nuclear power industry. Then you've got to deal with the question of addressing Sharia, legislatively at the State and or Federal levels so that the message gets across to the worldwide Muslim population that if you eliminate your political doctrine, you are welcomed to be here under the free exercise rule of our First Amendment. However, if you are engaged in cultivating doctrine that amounts to the overthrow of our form of government then it is “Hasta la vista” time as a certain Governor in California would say. Of necessity we must purge moral relativism and political correctness from our intelligence and national law enforcement agencies. Look at what happened with the 9/11 Commission recommendations. Our governments both under Bush and Obama have eliminated from the official lexicon words like Jihad, Islamic extremism and terrorism. We have in the Obama Administration members of the Muslim Brotherhood as Senior Officers in the Department of Homeland Security. Those are things that have to be done and they have to be done as soon as Congress is formed in January.
Abraham: Do you feel a new House perhaps even a new Senate would be motivated by your point of view?
Gordon: I view that the recent letter bomb episode as a defeat. We should have caught the perpetrators and embargoed Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Dubai, the origins of a new crop of terrorists affiliated with Al Qaeda out to do us harm. However, our government doesn't want to hear that. I refer back to the McLaughlin poll results where likely voters expressed concerns about our national security and terrorism threat. Certainly the example of what happened in Yemen with these two dozen packages floating around with high explosives, capable of killing hundreds of people if not thousands should be of important concern to Americans So I have to believe that when the new Congress is formed that those individuals who are now ranking members of various House committees and sub committees on these subject matter issues will rise to the occasion to address those abiding national security concerns of all Americans.
Abraham: Let me ask you another question that's on my mind. You hear that many Americans are not convinced that every one of the Muslim faith is radical. Is there any way we can support those who are not radicals, to not be fearful of being killed by fellow Muslims? There is a huge assumption out there that most of the Muslims are peace loving. What's your thought on that?
Gordon: Well. It is a remote possibility.
Abraham: That moderate Muslims could become more moderate and do not have to be afraid of retribution?
Gordon: Yes, The problem is that you would have to eliminate all of the super structure of Muslim clerics and the Imams who are trained in this hateful doctrine and replace them with individuals who would emphasize the so called spiritual aspects of this faith. Remember, the Saudis are bankrolling the spread of fundamentalist Wahhabist Islam. That doctrine is what fueled the hate against us in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and adjacent countries in the Middle East. You can't do that unless you take the fuel, the petro dollars out of the Saudi bank accounts. That revolution cannot occur until people are educated to overcome a hateful doctrine. You can't educate people against the doctrine that they've been raised with since the age of 2-1/2 or 3 years. This is the way of the Muslim world, that they are brainwashed to hate Christians, Jews, Buddhists, and Hindus, anybody else who is different from them. That hateful doctrine should not persist in this world. It has to be crushed as we crushed Soviet Communism through cold war techniques. Those techniques were reflected in containment policies, fighting small scale wars in certain locations and watching the command economies of the Soviet Union and its allies essentially crumble because of dead rot. Do we have the same equivalent conditions in the Muslim ummah or community of believers? I don't think so.
Abraham: Based on what you've said during this interview, what else should people be thinking about?
Gordon: One of the important things I want to leave your listeners is that America has a valued ally in the Middle East. It's called Israel and it's not just on the question of people who share our common values and heritage. Take the recent example of this cyber warfare against Iran. Who is it that informed opinion now considers as a likely source of the cyber attack against the nuclear enrichment program in Iran? It is a tiny state of Israel with its talented group of young men and women trained in the advanced art of computer related security technologies. Israel is the strong horse in the Middle East on the front line of Islamic hate whether it is the Iranians, Hezbollah, Hamas, even the Saudis. And yet Israel has been strong armed by President Obama and his acolytes in his Administration. This election will hopefully turn that around. That is what I want to leave with your listeners.
Abraham: I cannot tell you how grateful I am for you to appear on this show and I know the people of Vicksburg and those online have really appreciated it. I encourage my listeners to read yours and other article in the New English Review. It is a true scholarly on-line journal.
Gordon: Have a good day and watch as a glorious America will emerge from this Election Day. Thanks for having me.
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